Question / Clarification on billing start

My father just signed up for Voipo home service and told me the following story.

He said when he signed up for service, he received the home phone adapter (ATA) about 5 days later, and started using the service at that time.

However, when he received his first bill, he saw that Voipo started billing him based on order date, not the date he received the adapter and started using it. (technically, his "installation" date)

He tried emailing customer service to get a credit for those days, but they would not do so. (They said that he could have used a softphone with his Voipo account for those few days, so the account was valid and active)

Now, I realize it's only a few bucks we're talking about, but it doesn't seem quite right that a service that is being marketed as a home phone replacement should start billing when ordered as opposed to when it is really first usable.

Can anyone clarify - is this really the official policy? I read over the terms of service posted on the website and it does not explicitly address this. If this is indeed the official policy, I would suggest that there is clear notification of this during the signup process.

Yes, since customers have access to the control panel immediately many setup call forwarding, voicemail etc and begin using their service right after signing up.

If we based it on another date, there would be substantial losses from unbilled time where users were using call forwarding, etc prior to receiving the ATA.

By basing it on the order date, we can give customers immediate access to their accounts while protecting ourselves from abuse. In order to maintain our low pricing, we must be strict with this. If we were absorbing losses from unbilled time, we would not be able to offer the same pricing.

The only alternative is to not activate the account at all until receipt, but the vast majority of our customers would get upset if we did that since they couldn't begin using their control panel features immediately. Some users would also debate the delivery date or the date they actually set the equipment up after delivery as well.

Thanks Tim.
Fair enough, but I still believe the following:

1) I'm not sure I agree that "most customers" take immediate advantage of the control panel. I would bet that many (most?) do not start using the service until they have an ATA, especially if you are trying to market this as a replacement to copper POTS service.

2) Why not simply start billing on the date of the first call, or 10 days after shipment of the ATA, whichever is later? That seems fair to both parties and it would protect you from any debates. It would also allow people who wanted to take immediate advantage of the control panel to do so.

3) At a minimum, you should really disclose this policy up front when signing up for service as well as clarifying it in your T&C's web page. If you did this, there would be no argument.

Cheers,
Larry

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Originally Posted by larryc

2) Why not simply start billing on the date of the first call, or 10 days after shipment of the ATA, whichever is later? That seems fair to both parties and it would protect you from any debates. It would also allow people who wanted to take immediate advantage of the control panel to do so.

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We actually begin incurring costs as soon as the phone number is activated with upstream carriers. If we don't activate it, we can't guarantee the number will still be available when the customer is ready to use it. So if we waited 10 days to activate the account, we'd be paying for the phone number and network capacity with upstream carriers for the account for 10 unbilled days.

Again, all approaches have pros and cons, but since we assign a number and give access immediately, this is the only way to cover our losses.

Statistically right now 84% of customers have either a call or have logged into the control panel within 72 hours of ordering.

The billing period happening on the sign-up date is typical of the other VoIP providers I have used. It seems reasonable.

I imagine that any alternative like you suggested would need more back office software changes, and the effort would not likely be recognized by most customers. As a suggestion - it is an interesting one.

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Originally Posted by usa2k

The billing period happening on the sign-up date is typical of the other VoIP providers I have used. It seems reasonable.

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Perhaps, but I am sure John Q. Public wouldn't tolerate this from either the iLEC or local cable company. Imagine if you were billed for cable tv from order date, not installation date! Again, in J. Q. Public's mind, the live date for a Voip service is the day you receive your ATA, not the day you order it.

All in all, the simplest thing is to simply disclose this billing policy up front as well as in the terms of service.

I bet there is less fraud in residential cable service. The cable billing system is geared that way. Let me know who else does it differently in VoIP?

You can always vote with your wallet. I've never had as much value for service as VOIPo, and my vote is right here :)

I can understand the 84% statistic, as the first thing someone is going to do after signing up for a service is go access it online - even if they do not have the equipment or need to make a call. From what I've read, voipo was initially geared towards a more 'tech savvy' customer, but plans to push for more of the average customer. As one of the 'average' folk, finding out that my trial started when I accessed my account, as opposed to when I activated the device may leave a bad taste in my mouth (thank goodness I read this first!).
I suggest that maybe there should be a footnote added in the order confirmation/setup (?) email informing customers.

Every voip provider that I "investigated" before deciding on Voipo started billing upon placing the order, that was about 6. I know Vonage did because I had worked for them and was also a customer. I know Net2Phone does because a company I worked for private labeled their service. Also a cable or service physically brings and installs the equipment so they have control of starttup dates. Since voip providers generally mail the equip to the customer (at no charge) this prevents a customer from getting equipment and "sitting on it" for weeks at a time before activating.

Not sure if Voipo has it noted during the signup process, if not, they should but that doesn't change the fact that all the voip providers (that I have seen/dealt with/worked for) do.

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Originally Posted by MisterEd

Also a cable or service physically brings and installs the equipment so they have control of starttup dates.

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If you already have the newer phone upgradeable modem for internet service, you would call in to have phone service activated by them. Usually, you are up and running in less than 24 hrs.
If you have an older modem, they can mail you the newer phone upgrade modem and you call them when you are ready to install phone service. Cable (at least CV, TWC) is making a definite push to have customers install their own internet and phone services. They only come out for cable tv installs and will charge $15-$45 for future home installs like internet or phone.

When BroadvoxDirect.com had Residential offerings, they would start the billing date based on the first minutes used. Either Call Forwarding, Received Call, or Placed Call. Still, when comparing VoIP providers, they seem to have been the one exception to the vast majority, and no longer offer Residential service.

When an account is created, there is the monthly expense of the reserved DID, and the activation of E911. They provide an initial money-back guarantee that eats that expense plus minutes used.

Vonage used to limit you to 200 minutes usage (I don't see it anymore in their TOS now) and if longer than 30 days, they charge an extra $39.95 termination fee, that is waived with return of the device, or if you owned it for 2 years or more.

In comparison, VOIPo is very generous in what they honor.
(Can't seem to find a link to the terms of 30 day guarantee ...)

The Vonage term fee is/was never waived after 30 days unless you threatened to sue them. :) They also charge you $79.95 for their "free" device (they call it a rebate recovery fee) AND $39.95 term fee if you cancel before 1 year (or 2 years depending on when you initially signed up). Their biggest gimmick now is when you call to (threaten to) cancel they give you service for 1/2 price ($12.50/mo) for a year. I just had $240+ dollars in fees reversed by Amex that they charged me when I canceled my 2 lines with them. I could write a book.

When I used PhonePower, my service didn't start until my port date,
if they could do it I'm sure Voipo can also.

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Originally Posted by usa2k

In comparison, VOIPo is very generous in what they honor.
(Can't seem to find a link to the terms of 30 day guarantee ...)

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There is a page about the 30 day guarantee in the
VOIPo Knowledgebase:
http://www.voipo.com/voipaffiliate/i...id=2747&url=84

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Originally Posted by parkroad22

When I used PhonePower, my service didn't start until my port date,
if they could do it I'm sure Voipo can also.

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I received my ATA just a few days after signing up. I then used the service with the virtual number I was given for nearly 2 weeks before I even started the porting process. Taking full advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee I wanted to make sure that VOIP was for me before killing my landline. I used the VOIPo service quite a bit for nearly a month by the time my port date arrived. Does PhonePower give you a virtual number to use while you are porting like VOIPo? I suppose VOIPo owes me for the few days it took for my ATA to be delivered, that works out to about 75 cents. That is a small extra fee for an incredible service that is saving me a ton of money.

I signed up last night. The email I received claimed that I would received my logon info in less than an hour. My credit card has been charged but I have NOT received any access information. I do not have immediate access to my account.

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Originally Posted by Cminerich

I signed up last night. The email I received claimed that I would received my logon info in less than an hour. My credit card has been charged but I have NOT received any access information. I do not have immediate access to my account.

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Just contact support@voipo.com from the e-mail you ordered with and they'll get you squared away. Keep in mind that if you ordered a residential/full service account, you won't be able to use your own device (BYOD) until you receive our device and connect it the first time. This is a security measure that helps us verify your billing address.