Calls dropped, one way calls, and registration issues.

[djrobx]

I'm having a lot of these troubles lately too. I created a trouble ticket and they supposedly switched the network that I'm on, but it didn't make any difference.

It comes and goes. I've made calls all morning today without a single hitch, but sometimes it gets so bad I give up and use my cell phone. The connection itself is always crystal clear with no garbling once established, it just has fits of problems where I either don't receive or can't make calls.

I never once had this problem with either CallVantage or PhonePower. With PhonePower I had the same Grandstream HT502 ATA. I also didn't have this problem with VOIPo during the first year or so. I also changed ISPs (U-verse to TW Cable) which also meant changing my router, and it didn't make a difference. It acts like some sort of capacity issue of some sort on VOIPo's end.

[redoneusa]

I have been using VoIP in many different flavors since starting with the very earliest Packet8 equipment. Having used PhonePower for many years I am interested to see what my VoiPO experiences will be. I will have the two services side by side for a while.

In addition I currently work in the industry and have gained quite a bit of experience from the many different vendors out there. The nature of voip and its variances means that for every one poor user who cannot get it working right I bet you will find 50-100 that have no issue.

Whatever provider or technology you use those those calls have to work well.

[phonezone]

I've been having the same problem while evaluating VOIPO at (4) different sites all with different ISPs and all log the VOIPO failures at the same time while trunks from other VOIP vendors stay up. I was really hoping this wasn't going to be a VOIPO wide problem.

[christcorp]

If it was a VoipO wide problem, you'd hear a lot of people complaining. But the overwhelming majority of VoipO users don't have any significant problems. A couple times a year, I have an issue with incoming or outgoing calls. I have a pretty complicated network. Everything is static IP addresses; QOS; port forwarding (For various devices). If I start to have any voip problems, I usually notice memory leaks either in my modem or router also. I usually reboot my entire network and everything works perfectly again. Basically; I've never had any significant issues with VoipO or ANY voip service I've had. And I've had no less than 3 different internet providers over the years.

Voip is still not as mainstream as many would like to believe it is. It is still dependent on the network it is connected to and the internet connection and ISP. Some day, if we can ever get QOS type service at the ISP/WAN/Internet level, voip will be able to become universally accepted and function better. "Same with video conferencing". But for now, those who know a lot about networking and the internet will have very few problems with voip. Those who don't know as much, or think they do, will still have some problems. If one provider appears to work flawlessly for an individual, that doesn't mean that provider is better. Simply means that service is more compatible with that individual's network, their ISP, and that ISP's routing.

What is going to change this for everyone; for the GOOD; is 4G cellular technology. "Why, pray tell?" Because currently, cellular voice calls are not processed on the same portion of cellular networks as data is. GSM/CDMA, 2G/1Xrtt, 3G, and now 4g/LTE are all different parts of the cellular system. Within the next few years, the cell companies will actually be processing their phone calls over the 4g/LTE data network. Basically, voip calls. Now that they have the bandwidth with 4g/LTE, they will be able to do this. Once they start doing this, the internet will need to be able to handle the CBR type of traffic like voice/video that is required for data that needs to remain constant and packets aligned. Once this is done for the big boys like Verizon and AT&T, other voice traffic like current voip providers, will have their packets processed much smoother.

My only concern is the evolution of cellular providers. With 4g service offering a lot more bandwidth and throughput, and cell providers like Verizon now offering the "Share Everything" plan where they offer unlimited voice and texting, the need for home fixed internet access like DSL and Cable as well as home Voice service will almost become obsolete. The only thing holding the cellular providers like verizon back from putting all home internet companies out of business is the bandwidth need at home for such things like netflix streaming, online gaming, and other high bandwidth. But for the average internet user, an unlimited voice, text, and reasonable data allowance can make the need for home internet and voip/POTS a thing of the past.

[GreenLantern]

It would be interesting to find the pattern... is it certain devices? Time of day? Call volume?

We've got several dozen ata's, ip phones and pbx systems using a combined total of over a hundred thousand minutes per month.

So if there are problems, we're going to hit them. Whereas other users may never notice.

It is mostly our pbx locations that have the problems, but those locations also have our highest call volumes too.

@christcorp - What kind of voip devices are you using? How many calls (minutes) per month do you make?

Same questions to everyone else.

Maybe we can find a pattern.

[ymhee_bcex]

Voip is still not as mainstream as many would like to believe it is. It is still dependent on the network it is connected to and the internet connection and ISP. Some day, if we can ever get QOS type service at the ISP/WAN/Internet level, voip will be able to become universally accepted and function better. "Same with video conferencing". But for now, those who know a lot about networking and the internet will have very few problems with voip. Those who don't know as much, or think they do, will still have some problems. If one provider appears to work flawlessly for an individual, that doesn't mean that provider is better. Simply means that service is more compatible with that individual's network, their ISP, and that ISP's routing.

You may be right; however, if another company gets a reputation for better quality (either because it is more compatible with people's network, their ISP, and that ISP's routing, or just by sheer luck) then VOIPo will start bleeding customers. Since it's VOIPo forum, I am not going to do comparisons; you can see plenty of opinions by people who know or think they do on DSL Reports. So, in the end it's a business decision whether to increase compatibility with that people's network, their ISP, and that ISP's routing - or to stay complacent and explain that Voip is still not as mainstream.

Technical problems are more often than not management incompetency masquerading as technical problems.

[christcorp]

ymhee. Things to consider. Actual customers who also spend time on forums are quite low. Any forum; whether it's voip, PC's, cars, sports, guns, etc... usually make up less than 5% of users. I.e. The voipo forum has 27,006 members. How many of them are somewhat regular members? Very few. Also; there's probably a considerable amount more voipo customers than 27,006. Next; when it comes to forums, the majority of posts are either by regulars who are hobbiests and are really into the subject, (Geeks); or it's an individual looking for the answer to a specific question or problem. Once found, they go generally go away again until the next problem. Same with any type of forum. Bottom line, forums are a poor source to determine good/bad of a subject. Rarely do users search out a forum to say what a wonderful product or service it is.

Also, the majority of voip users, whether it's voipo, vonage, or whomever, have the most basic of home network setups, and experience little to no problems. Most have a combo dsl/cable modem/router/wireless. Some have a separate wireless router. They have maybe 1 hardwired PC and possibly a wireless laptop. The average user isn't streaming heavy data, aren't worried about QOS, don't have a need for static IP's, aren't downloading torrents, etc...

The best management tool VoipO can use to determine their product/service is to look at their trouble logs. Compare total number of users with total number of trouble tickets. I.e. If Tim or another VoipO member tells us they have 100,000 voipo customers, and that their call center receives approximately 100 trouble tickets per day (Not related to HOW DO I type questions); then they can judge the quality of their availability and reliability. They can also determine if certain problems are consistent with all technologies or ISP's or if it's random. I know you think that a company like voipo should strive to increase their product/service compatibility with individual's networks, ISP, etc..., but too many things affect that. When I run into people with problems with their voip, the first thing I have them do is to run only their voip. No computers, no netflix, no printers, no wifi, etc... Just their internet, modem, and voip. Then, they can at least narrow the problem to Voip/WAN/ISP or Voip/Network/Lan. There are too many different manufacturers of routers, modems, PC's, operating systems, ISP, etc... to try and make a product like Voip work with every single one of them. Now, if we could ever get rid of "Net Neutrality" or find other ways to sector off and channel real time traffic like voip and video conferencing, then we'd probably no longer have most of these problems.

Greenlatern: My home phone system is VoipO and I use a PAP2 with about 10 analog phones in the house. At work, I have my own telephone network with a few thousand lines. It is made up of approximately 15 PBX/gateways scattered around the state. It's a combination of digital, analog, and voip phones. It combines DID's from Ma'Bell, PRI T1 lines, local CO trunk lines, Interconnectivity between them all using DSL, Point to Point T1 lines, Metro Ethernet, and my own Statewide Microwave network. It is the ultimate hybrid. But even with it being my own network with just DID/CO Trunk to go off-net, I still have issues occasionally. Sometimes the voip calls sound choppy to customers. Sometimes digitized. It is not uncommon for one of my phone calls to go digital/analog/VOIP, converted to voip, over a T1, back to a gateway, over my own microwave network, to my main-brain PBX, routed over a DSL or Metro-Ethernet, to another gateway, converted back to non-voip/digital, off load to a PRI or CO trunk to Ma-Bell, to a private phone. Overall, my work phone system is very reliable and most customers are happy with it. We have a lot of backup routing if something goes down. But there are still customers who complain. Some have old monitoring equipment and must have an analog line so they can still use a dialup modem. Some prefer using digial pbx style phones. Believe it or not, very few actually like using the VOIP phones.

[ymhee_bcex]

Mike,
Very long post; I agree with about 80%. But what is your point?

One thing where you are mistaken:

I know you think that a company like voipo should strive to increase their product/service compatibility with individual's networks, ISP, etc...,

No, I don't; I question the premise that the root cause of the problem is generic compatibility with individual's networks, ISP, etc (and since I by definition know better what I think, I am comfortable saying that you are mistaken; as opposed to I disagree).

Anyway, I think we are both saying that it is a business decision for VOIPo to assess whether there is a problem or not. You are going into details how to make this decision... I trust that the management and the investors should make this decision themselves. Market (profits and losses) will show whether the decision is correct.

[christcorp]

Note: The reason the post was long, was because you weren't the only person I was replying too. Greenlatern also asked me a question.

Well; considering the majority of customers don't have problems, and the voipo equipment and network is basically the same for each customer, I have to stand by the belief that "most" voice quality issues are rooted with the customer's network, their ISP, or their ISP's routing. Not all problems, just most. Now there were times when I had call issues that only happened when I called a particular city. That showed that the issue pointed towards the handoff gateway at the distant city I was calling. But many times, it is on the customer's end.

My point was that you were mentioning reviews, comparisons, issues, etc... mentioned on forums. Including DSLreports. My point was that forums are such a small sampling of active customers, and "most" people who visit forums are looking for a solution to a problem, that by it's very nature, you will see more complaints and issues brought up in a forum than what accurately reflects true customer experiences.

[N6ATF]

Also been having problems (random dropped calls, garbled calls, dial a number and dead air) for the past few weeks. Thought it might be due to the new features being put in. Grandstream HT502, ~5mb/2mb Cox on Motorola SB5101, WRT54GL with ports forwarded and on the Exempt QOS mode... and just made the Grandstream the DMZ host for the hell of it. Resetting the cable modem fixes everything temporarily... nothing feels like it's overheating... WTH