No fax support whatsoever - do not sign up if you intend to fax!!

[cerulean]

I fax about 2-3 pages each month and have never had problems on Vonage. So before signing up for Voipo, I asked customer support whether I can fax on Voipo. Their response: While it's not a feature of Voipo, faxes can be sent.

So I signed up and tried several test faxes which went fine. I sent about 6 faxes successfully since singing up in Feb 2009. Then they had the Network issues that interrupted service for many customers. Well, whatever they did to fix the network issues, I now get echos on voice and CANNOT send a single FAX. The echos I can tolerate, but no fax is very inconvenient for me.

So I called tech support and was told that while it's not supported, if I open a ticket, someone can at least take a look to see if the settings on my device is optimized. This seemed reasonable to me. I send the ticket and here's the response:

> Hello,
> Since we do not fully support fax and we do not recommend that our customers to use our service for anything except voice service, there's no troubleshooting we can offer for your faxing issue. Faxing is pretty much hit or miss on VoIP service due to the communication over the internet and up time is never guaranteed. Let us know if you have any questions or concerns. Thank you.

So not only do they not support fax, they won't help you in any way to troubleshoot. And their recommendation to only use it for voice seems inconsistent with the information that I received before signing up. I guess it's not worth their time anymore to help out their customers. So anyone considering faxing on Voipo, don't repeat my mistake and go with another provider.

[VOIPoTim]

Unfortunately, faxing over VoIP will never be fully reliable so that's why we don't officially support it.

In ideal situations with a clean connection, it'll work, but since VoIP was not designed for faxing and we can't guarantee it won't work, we just don't support it officially.

From TOS:

---
Service Limitations

Due to the nature of all VoIP services, VOIPo service is not designed to be used for data connections with modems, home security systems, fax machines and related devices. It is optimized for voice only and you may experience issues and inconsistencies when using VOIPo service in non-voice scenarios.
---

Sorry if there was confusion about this, but if we can't guarantee something will work, we just don't support it because then customers come back to us expecting it to be fixed anytime they have an issue with it.

[cerulean]

If this is your policy to never even troubleshoot a fax problem, then all your sales staff should explain this when prospective customers ask. I was never told this when I specifically asked if faxes can be sent on your service.

While I understand that you don't guarantee fax reliability, it is obvious from the timing of my fax problems that it's from something your company changed to fix your network problems that plagued your system. Since I can't access the ATA device to view settings, and I don't know what changes you made, I have absolutely no way to troubleshoot something your company changed. All I asked is for someone to just take a look to see if any of those changes can affect a fax transmission. I would be completely fine with taking a look but still finding no fix. But I guess spending the few minutes to take a look is too much of a burden on your staff. Or you may be too busy spending time finding and replying to all the similar posts that I made to warn others on other forums to have time left over to actually try to help one of your customers.

[VOIPoTim]

If this is your policy to never even troubleshoot a fax problem, then all your sales staff should explain this when prospective customers ask. I was never told this when I specifically asked if faxes can be sent on your service.

While I understand that you don't guarantee fax reliability, it is obvious from the timing of my fax problems that it's from something your company changed to fix your network problems that plagued your system. Since I can't access the ATA device to view settings, and I don't know what changes you made, I have absolutely no way to troubleshoot something your company changed. All I asked is for someone to just take a look to see if any of those changes can affect a fax transmission. I would be completely fine with taking a look but still finding no fix. But I guess spending the few minutes to take a look is too much of a burden on your staff. Or you may be too busy spending time finding and replying to all the similar posts that I made to warn others on other forums to have time left over to actually try to help one of your customers.

What happens is once we start "tweaking" and making custom changes for customers knowing they may or may not work, it usually turns into a bad cycle of the customer expecting us to fix it again if it doesn't work.

Since faxing is so hit or miss, it could easily turn into a situation where we make a tweak to help with it that "may" work, but then it would stop later and the customer would be upset again.

Based on that happening over and over in the past, support is only able to help with services we directly support and can guarnatee consistent results for.

I know you're frustrated, but by keeping everything standardized, the service will be much more stable for all customers than it would be if we start adjusting things on an individual basis.

Some customers having custom "tweaks" and fixes applied outside of the norm caused a ton of problems in the past and prevented us from making a lot of system changes (since it would likely disrupt service for those customers).

There are pros and cons, but at this point, VOIPo is out of the "tweaking" business and we're focusing on delivering consistent, stable, reliable service across the board.

[chpalmer]

http://www.soft-switch.org/foip.html

[burris]

There are pros and cons, but at this point, VOIPo is out of the "tweaking" business and we're focusing on delivering consistent, stable, reliable service across the board.

Can't ask for more than that. Excellent..

[cerulean]

What happens is once we start "tweaking" and making custom changes for customers knowing they may or may not work, it usually turns into a bad cycle of the customer expecting us to fix it again if it doesn't work.

Since faxing is so hit or miss, it could easily turn into a situation where we make a tweak to help with it that "may" work, but then it would stop later and the customer would be upset again.

Based on that happening over and over in the past, support is only able to help with services we directly support and can guarnatee consistent results for.

I know you're frustrated, but by keeping everything standardized, the service will be much more stable for all customers than it would be if we start adjusting things on an individual basis.

Some customers having custom "tweaks" and fixes applied outside of the norm caused a ton of problems in the past and prevented us from making a lot of system changes (since it would likely disrupt service for those customers).

There are pros and cons, but at this point, VOIPo is out of the "tweaking" business and we're focusing on delivering consistent, stable, reliable service across the board.

This "tweaking" excuse is just that, an excuse not to bother even trying to help troubleshoot. This is the first and only time I ever asked for help to troubleshoot an issue, so its not "a situation where we make a tweak to help with it that "may" work, but then it would stop later and the customer would be upset again"

And your "no tweak" policy is not written anywhere in the TOS, and is completely invalid since you allow BYOD. So if anyone bought their own PAP2 and use it on your service, like I read on many other posts, they can't tweak their device? Of course they can, and from the posts I've read, most of them do. So just be upfront and just say you don't want to bother with helping a customer out instead of coming up with lame excuses that aren't written anywhere and don't even make sense with your own BYOD policies.

Here's a novel idea - why not be upfront about your "absolutely no troubleshooting policy" when people ask about faxing before they sign up for your service. I specifically asked and was never told about this policy. Of course you run the risk of customers not signing up, but at least that would be honest. Instead, your rep told me that many customers send faxes on your service without issues, which may be half true, since they're the ones probably with their own devices that they can "tweak".

[VOIPoTim]

This "tweaking" excuse is just that, an excuse not to bother even trying to help troubleshoot. This is the first and only time I ever asked for help to troubleshoot an issue, so its not "a situation where we make a tweak to help with it that "may" work, but then it would stop later and the customer would be upset again"

And your "no tweak" policy is not written anywhere in the TOS, and is completely invalid since you allow BYOD. So if anyone bought their own PAP2 and use it on your service, like I read on many other posts, they can't tweak their device? Of course they can, and from the posts I've read, most of them do. So just be upfront and just say you don't want to bother with helping a customer out instead of coming up with lame excuses that aren't written anywhere and don't even make sense with your own BYOD policies.

Here's a novel idea - why not be upfront about your "absolutely no troubleshooting policy" when people ask about faxing before they sign up for your service. I specifically asked and was never told about this policy. Of course you run the risk of customers not signing up, but at least that would be honest. Instead, your rep told me that many customers send faxes on your service without issues, which may be half true, since they're the ones probably with their own devices that they can "tweak".

Again, since we do not support faxing, our team cannot support it.

These two clauses have been in our TOS since December:

---
Equipment

VOIPo provides all residential customers with a telephone adapter and softphone solution to use to connect to our service. The use of any other third party devices (such as ATAs) or software (such as Asterisk) is strictly prohibited. Users who attempt to circumvent this restriction face immediate termination of their service. VOIPo reserves the right to remotely access and manage provided devices.


Service Limitations

Due to the nature of all VoIP services, VOIPo service is not designed to be used for data connections with modems, home security systems, fax machines and related devices. It is optimized for voice only and you may experience issues and inconsistencies when using VOIPo service in non-voice scenarios.
---

While we have been somewhat lenient in allowing customers to use BYOD in the past by not enforcing the TOS, the TOS hasn't changed and has always been clear that we do not support any devices outside of the ones we provide. When users have used BYOD, the responsibility to manage their device is 100% on their end and we have never provided assistance or support with configuring BYOD devices.

Again, I understand that you're frustrated, but we have never offered fax support, so we can't support it when customers ask for assistance with it. This has been in the TOS since the day of launch.

If you have any additional questions, please contact support. This is not a debatable topic since it has been our policy since Day 1.

[Xponder1]

Sorry that you did not read and understand the terms of service. If you want to fax get a pots line. That is the only reliable way to send faxes. There has never been any claim by VOIPo that fax will work.

A simple search on Google clearly shows this is not isolated to VOIPo.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=voip+faxing+problems&btnG=Google+Search&aq=0&oq=voip+faxing&fp=_rpp-4zAm3I

I personally have sent faxes using the service but its hit and miss. If you need to receive faxes they have a product for that. Sending is your problem.

Oh, and in regards to your comments about the "tweaking" excuse as you call it I have witnessed here on the forums what happens when they start tweaking stuff for one or a few people. It causes problems for everyone else and I am sure that it becomes a never ending loop with support.

Not trying to be rude but as I said before if you need faxing that bad you need a pots line. VOIP is for people to talk.

Edit- and I can confirm that when I signed up in December the above info WAS in the terms of service.

[1bird2]

There are pros and cons, but at this point, VOIPo is out of the "tweaking" business and we're focusing on delivering consistent, stable, reliable service across the board.

Yes, Yes, Yes.... Can not argue or complain with this last statement.... THANK YOU!!!!

I have a simple, no features, POTS line for about $9 a month from my local Telephone Co and added some cheap LD provider at .01 per min (if my wife needs to Fax LD). Works great. I have used VOIPo for Faxing, which works "most of the time". Same with Vonage and Packet8, services I have had in the past. BUT, not all of the time (with Vonage, Packet8 or even VOIPo).

If you need to fax successfully everytime, get a POTS line......

-bird

[tylerscell1]

VOIPOis a phone company. It has been in there TOS since they launched it and there is no more they can really do bro...

[Nan]

When I first signed up (Mar 2010) I was disappointed to find out that my Replay TV recorder could no longer make a modem connection to update its channel guide. However, while working on a different issue the tech support rep logged in to my Grandstream phone adapter, updated the firmware and settings. The phone worked better and as an extra benefit the Replay modem connection now works 100% of the time now. I have not tried a fax machine but I assume it will work now also. I prefer to use the VOIPO incoming and outgoing fax services since my faxes are mostly from a filed document (or my scanned) anyway.

BTW, as for the tech support, the reps I have worked with have been great. I have a special setup on my network including a hardware firewall and they have been knowledgeable and helpful in getting my service working well.

[jlachowin]

I can't believe this guy... It clearly states in the TOS that VOIPo won't support faxing, so what is the issue? Move on... I purchased VOIPo for cheap but quality phone service, and I read the TOS before signing up.

[jlachowin]

Also, I just checked in my vPanel and with VOIPo outgoing faxes are free? I thought I had to buy a fax # first, but the vPanel allows you to send out going .xls, .txt, .pdf etc for free? That is sweet!

[caseydoug]

Also, I just checked in my vPanel and with VOIPo outgoing faxes are free? I thought I had to buy a fax # first, but the vPanel allows you to send out going .xls, .txt, .pdf etc for free? That is sweet!
Right. I combine that with a free incoming fax number from K7.net, and it works great for my limited needs. K7 uses a 206 area code, which is the same as mine. Also, I had to set up a little script to send myself a fax once a week, otherwise I would lose the K7 number because of non-use.

Obviously, if you need a fax for regular use, pay for and get a number from VOIPo.

[MisterEd]

Did you try setting your fax machine to 2400, 1200 or 300 baud and turn off ECM (error correction) ? That should help. As for Vonage you just got very lucky. I used to work for them and (other then the suggestion above) you were SOL. They didn't "support" it either. They would do some ATA tweaks but would tell you up front that it will affect your voice service negatively.

That being said, VOIPo offers free OUTBOUND faxing from documents which works well. It's in vPanel and their inbound fax number is only $24 for a year and also works well. Actually better than a fax machine even when it works.

[patrickinstardom]

This is probably not necessary but I have to ask: What makes you think you deserve to get special treatment with faxing when the Terms of Service officially says faxing is not supported by VOIPo?

It would be different if the Terms of Service said, yes faxing is supported. Then I could see VOIPo catering to faxing problems. But frankly, since I know VOIPo is a voice company, I'm glad network resources and support are focused on the voice side.

It doesn't matter whether the equipment has the potential to support a service or whatever; companies have a choice to support a feature or not, and the Terms of Service says they do not support faxing.

[rmwlaw]

**** That being said, VOIPo offers free OUTBOUND faxing from documents which works well. It's in vPanel and their inbound fax number is only $24 for a year and also works well. Actually better than a fax machine even when it works.

I have a fax line from VOIPO for sending outgoing faxes. In vPanel, it shows a number of units for each fax. Do you know if they are planning on billing me for each fax received? I had asked before selecting their service for incoming faxes and was advised that I would not be billed per fax.

I have already sent an inquiry to VOIPO via e-mail, but I would appreciate anyone's input on the forum who would know (including VOIPO staff).

[usa2k]

What's a "unit"?

Outgoing file-to-FAX is part of the Residential Plan price.
It is not meant for heavy use as a Residential Plan would not need to send many.
Inbound Fax-to-email is extra cost and will state the price in vPanel before you authorize the charge.

[rmwlaw]

What's a "unit"?

Outgoing file-to-FAX is part of the Residential Plan price.
It is not meant for heavy use as a Residential Plan would not need to send many.
Inbound Fax-to-email is extra cost and will state the price in vPanel before you authorize the charge.

Sorry, I had stated outgoing, but meant to say, I have an "incoming fax number" from VOIPO. Obviously, every one with a residential plan has access to outgoing fax service.

Here's the fax line's Call History for the past 3 days from vPanel. Don't understand why I am being charged for incoming faxes to this fax line.



Timezone:
Wednesday, June 23rd 2010
From To Start Time Duration Fees
954#######
954#######
Call Reference ID: 67282940_32471000@4.55.14.163
Close

888#######
888#######
Call Reference ID: 67282940_32471000@4.55.14.163
Close
09:26 1
0.049
IN PSTN TOLL-FREE 1 minute @ $0.04900000 - $0.049

Close
Tuesday, June 22nd 2010
From To Start Time Duration Fees
877#######
877#######
Call Reference ID: 51301283_91370720@4.55.14.163
Close

888#######
888#######
Call Reference ID: 51301283_91370720@4.55.14.163
Close
09:20 4
0.196
IN PSTN TOLL-FREE 4 minutes @ $0.04900000 - $0.196

Close
877#######
877#######
Call Reference ID: 33976302_33031866@4.55.14.163
Close

888#######
888#######
Call Reference ID: 33976302_33031866@4.55.14.163
Close
08:28 4
0.196
IN PSTN TOLL-FREE 4 minutes @ $0.04900000 - $0.196

Close
Monday, June 21st 2010
From To Start Time Duration Fees
305#######
305#######
Call Reference ID: 34417274_53461886@4.55.14.163
Close

888#######
888#######
Call Reference ID: 34417274_53461886@4.55.14.163
Close
15:22 1
0.049
IN PSTN TOLL-FREE 1 minute @ $0.04900000 - $0.049

Close
1

[usa2k]

OK. I don't have the service.
support@voipo.com with that info would get a quick response I expect.
I would think if its a Residential Account, that its included in the basic fee.

If this is a main Reseller Account, the connect time may be billable even though a DID and service functionality is included.

Similarly, a toll-free DID is included with a Reseller Account, but the minutes are billable.

Emailing support will should get an answer. You can perhaps update us here with the gist of answer so we can all learn.

[timreichhart]

try to use *99 before the number because *99 forces the fax go to analog. I had problems faxing on vonage and that is what I use to fax but I have not tried it on voipo system yet.