Reseller charges?

[IBhere]

Hi All,

I know what VOIPo is charging resellers but not quite sure how to mix/match the separate charges. For example, I recently added a fax line and thought I was only getting charged $1.00 only to find out I also got charged another $1.00 for DID which wasn't specified in the reseller listing. This is fine, but I would like to review the combining charges if I may. Please let me know if I forgot anything.

Primary line: Charges are for phone #, in/out minutes, E911 and EFU?
Fax service: Charges are for Fax service plus DID only?
Forwarder #'s: Charges are for Phone #, in/out minutes, EFU?
Virtual #'s: Charges are for Phone #, E911?
Toll Free #'s: Charges are for Toll Free #, in/minutes, EFU?

Please let me know if I forgot any of the charges that might pertain to any of the above group plans.

Thanks.

[usa2k]

I would also have thought you would only be charged $1 for the FAX DID
Then usage world be extra.

I would ask at reseller@voipo.com

(Never tried the FAX option during beta. I'm not pursuing Reseller.)

[VOIPoTim]

The fax addon is $1, but all other standard charges still apply for fax accounts. You'd still pay for the phone number and the minute usage.

Essentially everything you sell will have a phone number cost and a usage cost.

[IBhere]

That's what I figured, basically number cost and usage. I just didn't know if items such as E911 would be added to all services or only certain ones, which is why I created the sample in my first post. I just need to make sure I was understanding complete charges as without this understanding, creating customer pricing would be a disaster.

For example, the primary line is self explanatory. But since faxes for resellers are only incoming, is there a charge for an incoming fax, since it is being emailed?

Forwarding numbers are charged twice as an incoming call and outgoing to the forwarded number, correct?

Virtual numbers run off the primary number for minutes, so there's a number charge, but what about E911?

Toll Free numbers, I'm not sure how they are charged.

EFU is only on minutes used.

And last, which services is E911 added to automatically and which ones is it not needed?

I just want to make sure what reseller charges are in complete so I know what to charge customers.

[VOIPoBrandon]

Charges Overview:

All items such as Phone Numbers & E911 have a recurring cost. All phone numbers have 'usage' cost at a per minute rate deemed by the type of phone number and the direction of the call.

For example:

Incoming Toll Free (Domestic), Outgoing PSTN would be billed at a rate of $0.025 + $0.01/minute = $0.035/minute.

Incoming Toll Free (Canada), Outgoign PSTN would be billed at a rate of $0.06/minute + $0.1/minute = $0.07/minute.

So that goes to show that a call always has two legs (Incoming + Outgoing).

Please do keep in mind that SIP legs are free, so a "standard" residential call (non-forwarded) would only be billed for a single leg, dependent on the direction of the call i.e. incoming or outgoing.

In regards to E911 and associated fees. E911 is only available / applicable for "Full Service Line" accounts. The fees associated are $1.00/month. It is at your discretion to enable / disable for your emergency service needs. However I can not get into the legalities - so it is best to find out your E911 obligations through your own consultation.

Let me know if this all makes sense, thanks!

[IBhere]

Yes, that clears things up, but I am glad you used the Toll-Free number service as an example, because support had mentioned to me in the past that Toll-Free Service was incoming only and VOIPo wholesale pricing only mentions (1) a Toll-Free number charge and (2) incoming charges for US and Canada. There is no mention in the price list connecting Toll-Free usage with outgoing charges.

If this is an incoming only service, then how is there a charge for outgoing (.025 or .06) as these are listed as incoming charges in the VOIPo wholesale price list?

This is what has been confusing to me, as there seems to be some verbiage contradiction.

Just need clarification, as I'm sure so do the other resellers, before we go live with this.

[VOIPoBrandon]

Call Scenario:

Incoming call from [DOMESTIC UNITED STATES] to a [TOLLFREE] phone number - $0.025/minute

Now lets say you have this [TOLLFREE] phone number forwarded to an [OUTBOUND PHONE NUMBER / DESTINATION] i.e. your cell phone - $0.01/minute

(total rate per minute = $0.035/minute)

There are two charges involved here.

The first charge is for the INCOMING minute usage

The second charge is for the OUTGOING minute usage.

So these charges can be combined to present the overall per minute rate.

So simply put -- your call rate per minute is determined by the type of call legs involved (there are always two LEGS of a call) -- I think the confusion for you is that you are thinking that the call only is billed for a flat rate depending on the originating type.

Just to further give you some call leg examples to help understand:

Incoming SIP + Outgoing SIP

Incoming SIP + Outgoing PSTN (Publicly Switced Telephone Network)

Incoming PSTN + Outgoing SIP

Incoming PSTN + Outgoing PSTN

Starting to come together how there are always two legs of a call? To determine the overall per minute rate you simply add each leg together to get the actual per minute pricing.

I hope this clears some of the confusion.

Thanks!

[GreenLantern]

Brandon, thanks for helping with this.

So does that apply to standard outbound calls as well?

Example, if a customer makes a call to a number across town, they are going to be billed for $0.01/minute + $0.01/minute = $0.02/minute? So for a 10 minute call, reseller will be charged $0.20?

[VOIPoTim]

An outbound call would not have an incoming leg since it's going from our network to the outbound destination, it's it's only billed the outbound.

An incoming TF call for example could have something like this:

Incoming Leg to VOIPo

Outgoing Leg from VOIPo To Final Destination

An outgoing call across town would only have this:

Outgoing Leg from VOIPo

Think about what the call has to do to get to/from VOIPo.

[GreenLantern]

Ok, I think I've got it! lol

Just to make sure... an incoming call to VOIPo would be just like the outgoing... charge only on the incoming leg to VOIPo? (assuming this is on a full line, not TF or forwarding)

[VOIPoTim]

Right. The only time an outgoing charge would apply to an incoming call is if it's forwarded on to a different phone number off the VOIPo network.

[IBhere]

I believe we are all saying the same thing and it's quite understandable. What might be confusing to some is not knowing if examples given are complete or just one scenario.

For example, an incoming PSTN TF call forwarded to out to a PTSN (cell for example) - two charges, correct?

But if an incoming PSTN TF call gets sent to my primary VOIP number, then we would be charged for the incoming PSTN call only, and not for the TF to SIP, similar to a virtual number ringing on the primary - correct?

I think this is what has been confusing about the in/out - PSTN/SIP visual.

Can I assume my two examples are correct or do I need a beating - LOL . . . But seriously, do those two TF scenario's explain two ways we can be charged a little clearer?

[VOIPoTim]

Right, those are correct.

The key is you're charged for all legs that go on/off the VOIPo network. As long as a leg stays on the VOIPo network you're not charged for that leg.

[IBhere]

Tim / Brandon - Thank you for your help and patience.

[GreenLantern]

Ok, I'm getting it now.

But I'm still not clear on a few details.

1) If I call a VOIPo (or reseller) customer's number, but the call basically stays within the VOIPo network, is it then a free call (no minutes in or out)?

2) If I call a SIP address (directly, not with phone number), but on a competing VOIP service, how is that handled?

[VOIPoBrandon]

1) Call is not billed (when staying on VOIPo's network).

2) A SIP address usage example, would be as follows:

John Smith has phone number "9496805673" under his reseller account.

John sets Incoming calls to this phone number to forward to: sip:SomeSipURI@someHost.com as the "destination".

The incoming leg (call TO 9496805673 would be billed at whatever applicable rate, and then the outbound forwarding leg would be free, because it is a SIP address / URI ).

Let me know if this clears the air, thanks!

[GreenLantern]

Yes, I think free SIP to SIP calling will be a nice selling feature.

[VOIPoTim]

Yes, I think free SIP to SIP calling will be a nice selling feature.

Yeah. You can definitely offer that. All SIP calling is billed at $0 to you.

We only bill you when the calls interact with the standard phone network.

[IBhere]

Charges Overview:

Incoming Toll Free (Domestic), Outgoing PSTN would be billed at a rate of $0.025 + $0.01/minute = $0.035/minute.

Incoming Toll Free (Canada), Outgoign PSTN would be billed at a rate of $0.06/minute + $0.1/minute = $0.07/minute.

So that goes to show that a call always has two legs (Incoming + Outgoing).


Is it always that Toll Free numbers would have two legs?

I always thought that you could forward a Toll Free number but in most cases, the Toll Free number normally would ring on your primary number same as a virtual number. In both cases, normally Toll Free and Virtual numbers are inbound only as you cannot call out on either.

Therefore, there should only be two legs on Toll Free if you set it up to forward to another number otherwise it should only have one leg - Correct?

[IBhere]

Yeah. You can definitely offer that. All SIP calling is billed at $0 to you.

We only bill you when the calls interact with the standard phone network.

So then Tim, what is your suggestion in setting up customer charges as we won't know ahead of time whether or not if they will be ordering a Toll Free number and have it pointed/forwarder to and outside number or an SIP number on the system?

[VOIPoTim]

So then Tim, what is your suggestion in setting up customer charges as we won't know ahead of time whether or not if they will be ordering a Toll Free number and have it pointed/forwarder to and outside number or an SIP number on the system?

I recommend setting a flat fee that assumes they will forward it off network and bill that.

It's rare that companies discount anything SIP or on network unless they're a budget VoIP provider targeting a highly technical budget-oriented market. Even then some do and some don't.

We charge our direct TF customers 4.9 and assume it will go to an external destination. We don't offer any discount for on-network or SIP for that...only the resellers get that.

Kall8 would be the primary competition for toll-free and where the majority of our TF customers that port come from. They're 6.9 cents.

Our 4.9 has plenty of margin for external forwarding and people still see it as saving 2 cents and are happy.

The key with VoIP in general is to not worry about other VoIP providers and compete with the landline companies. 86% of our port-ins come from landline. Even though there may be some cheaper VoIP options out there, 99% of users don't use VoIP and are very happy to see the huge savings over landlines.

[IBhere]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this. It was great advise and I appreciate the guidance you have to offer.

Now with the fax service being only incoming at this time, what do you suggest. I know we'll have to charge a flat fee but not knowing how many minutes to use should we or should we not offer free minutes and then charge after that (similar to toll free and forwarder numbers) or should that be an unlimited plan, etc.

This is the last thing I need to set up (fax service) and then I ready to go.