Billing observation

[usa2k]

My Founders Plan said its due date was 11/14/10
I got the notice 11/08/10

I'm thinking ... payday is 11/12/10 - sounds good.

Today 11/11/10 at 7PM my credit card was charged.

Why the rush??? Faulty software???


(Its OK but under other circumstances I may expect what I was told via email.)

[VOIPoTim]

Sorry for any confusion with it.

Our billing has always been setup where the first charge attempt is 72 hours before final due date. That gives people time to correct any billing errors if any declines and 2 other attempts for a total of 3 attempts.

We don't provide a grace period for billing since our prices are so low and accounts are subject to disconnection the day after the due date, so we try to give people time to correct billing issues in order to avoid interruptions rather than a single attempt and immediate suspension.

So the cycle is Invoice then charge 72 hours later then it's past due 72 hours beyond that.

[stevech]

We don't provide a grace period for billing since our prices are so low and accounts are subject to disconnection the day after the due date, so we try to give people time to correct billing issues in order to avoid interruptions rather than a single attempt and immediate suspension.
Isn't a common problem and complaint with VoIP providers that if someone is away from home/email for a week or two, their phone gets disconnected if, say, unintentionally the credit card on file has an expired date but in actuality its been renewed?

[VOIPoTim]

Isn't a common problem and complaint with VoIP providers that if someone is away from home/email for a week or two, their phone gets disconnected if, say, unintentionally the credit card on file has an expired date but in actuality its been renewed?

We send out card expiration notices a month or so in advance requesting an update.

We also send out the invoice before the first set of attempts and then there are 2 more attempts each day after the first attempt if declined.

If an account goes past due, we do suspend it in our system (all calls go to busy signal) but we don't immediately disconnect the number with our carriers. Typically we keep numbers with our vendors 3-4 weeks beyond the suspension so they can be reactivated (this is not guaranteed though).

I understand the point of view of people who think we should wait longer, but there's also the business case for limiting our exposure to bad debt. If we're not paid, we unfortunately can't provide the service. It's the same situation with our vendors.

When we suspend the service, people notice and take action to correct the situation or contact us to make arrangements to extend the due date. If we leave it on and send them notices, they typically ignore it until it's cut off.

Since we're holding onto numbers for a little while after suspension, it's important to do that quickly. Otherwise if we're waiting a week then suspending (which is the only time 99% of people notice) then we're holding it a few weeks, we're well beyond a month of paying to maintain that phone number, E911, etc and in 2 or more billing cycles with all our vendors (cannot get prorated refunds). At least by suspending as soon as it goes past due, waiting a few weeks will typically keep us in one billing cycle with vendors and not two.

While I agree an immediate full disconnection would not be best, I think it's reasonable to suspend service and then hold the number for a few weeks before we permanently disconnect it. I don't think it would be reasonable for us to be expected to continue service as usual if we're not being paid for it though.

Our process allows us to limit our exposure, get people's attention quickly and give people ample time to resolve billing issues before their number is lost.

[stevech]

Why not Invoice 30 days before expiration of the contract, rather than
We send out card expiration notices a month or so in advance requesting an update.
Our process allows us to limit our exposure, get people's attention quickly and give people ample time to resolve billing issues before their number is lost.

Not so much that the number is eventually lost, it's the immediate rejection of incoming calls.
Or does the credit card expiration notice clearly say: Service WILL terminate VERY soon after the credit card's expiration date, unless the card's revised expiration date is input to VoIPo's system. And VoIPo would send a confirmation of account renewal, right?

Just that we read of so many billing SNAFUs in VoIP providers' for good customers.

[VOIPoTim]

Why not Invoice 30 days before expiration of the contract, rather than

Not so much that the number is eventually lost, it's the immediate rejection of incoming calls.
Or does the credit card expiration notice clearly say: Service WILL terminate VERY soon after the credit card's expiration date, unless the card's revised expiration date is input to VoIPo's system. And VoIPo would send a confirmation of account renewal, right?

Just that we read of so many billing SNAFUs in VoIP providers' for good customers.

The expiration notice goes out the month before the card expires.

The earlier we send stuff out, the more hostile people that come forward stating we're trying to "bill them too far in advance" and getting extremely upset. I don't have a huge problem invoicing earlier, but you'd be amazed how hostile people get by thinking we're invoicing (requesting payment) too far in advance even if they're not charged at that point.

I understand where you're coming from overall, but please look at things from the business side of it as well. It's a balancing act between protecting our company from financial losses and people taking advantage of lax policies with providing some sort of middle ground to not let well-meaning users be affected while still getting their attention immediately so they can pay promptly.

A lot of people take advantage of lax policies. The only way to protect ourselves with the margins budget VoIP providers operate on is to have strict billing policies in place.

As an example, in the past when we have allowed a little more past due time before suspending, people would contact us demanding immediate unsuspension the following month because "I know I have x days past due before it's suspended, unsuspend this immediately" even when they were weeks past due and from a purely business perspective they should have been suspended long before that. They didn't care. They just knew that the policies were lax and they would cite all the months earlier to find one where their account was active for a longer past due period and demand it be allowed to go that far past due. The more loopholes like that, the more people will take advantage of them unfortunately.

We're all about being user friendly and providing great service to users, but providing that service costs money and we have to get paid. Users have to be reasonable in demands and take some responsibility for making sure they pay us.

I think that letting users know a card is expiring a month in advance and then sending them payment notices for a week is pretty reasonable for a prepaid only service.

[burris]

My renewal date is March.

Back in September, about a month before my card was set to expire, I received a reminder from VOIPo that it needed to be renewed.
What more could I ask for?

[voipinit]

I think VOIPo's policy is fine.

I wish my city utilities were as forgiving. When they bill, hope your check doesn't get lost/delayed in the mail as your only warning is when the electric and water are cutoff a few days after the due date. My pay service reimbursed me the $78 disconnect/connect/late charges, but doesn't help with a night without power and water. It doesn't matter that I lived here 10 years without ever a late payment. I guess a sign of the times. Now I call every month to verify they received my payment as they don't have any auto pay services.

[Russell]

I think VOIPo's policy is fine.


Same feeling here.

[stevech]

Yeah, magazine subscriptions are the worst. publishers seem to hire outsourced companies to pursue early renewals. Even free professional trade journals are doing this. My phone rings several times a week, from Bangalore, imploring me to renew (their ad rates are based on number of validated readers).

The utility companies have shortened the cycle to like 2-3 weeks now. They don't like the float. Me/myself, will not get a debit card.

It's all rampant greed.

[MisterEd]

I think VOIPo's policy is fine.

I wish my city utilities were as forgiving. When they bill, hope your check doesn't get lost/delayed in the mail as your only warning is when the electric and water are cutoff a few days after the due date. Egads! Where do you live? Around here (NJ) a major public utility (gas, electric, water) cannot disconnect you until you are at least 90 days past due and even then they have to go through some sort of formal process.