Ougoing Toll Free Calls Counting

[GreenLantern]

I think I've identified an issue with the way *outbound* Toll Free calls are counted.

I'm not being charged for them, but they are being counted and applied towards minute limits. So if a customer has a 200 minute limit, and makes 180 minutes of Toll Free calls, they only have 20 minutes left for regular calls.

I'll submit a support ticket. Seems like it should be an easy fix to make sure Toll Free calls aren't counting towards minute limits.

Might want to also check the math and make sure International calls are not being counted twice, etc.

[VOIPoTim]

That's actually by design, but we could look at adding an option to exclude them later.

The limit is designed to account for all calls. Most resellers bill for everything and the free stuff (on net, TF, etc) is extra profit.

[GreenLantern]

By design? Bummer. Not what I was hoping to hear. I'm likely to lose a customer immediately as a result. And I'm sure this will pop up again. I sure wouldn't pay for an account that charged me to make Toll Free calls, which is in essense what we're doing by counting Toll Free calls against the minute limit.

Voipo isn't charging resellers, but they are forcing resellers to charge customers for Toll Free calls... by design. Don't like that. :(

Toll Free calls need to be excluded from "counting" towards a user's preset calling limit.

Otherwise, we at least need to set the local call limit using dollar amounts too, rather than minutes, as we did with Intl calling.

Do we know if International calls are being counted towards the local calling limit?

thanks!
:)

[uf_shane]

Guys, I think there is a misconception on what Toll Free means...

It is purley in regards to a long distance toll charge... Voip is very simple you pay for all outbound and in bound usage... as soon as your call connects the meter is running.

[genxweb]

maybe a option like international calls to enable toll free calls so they show in a separate column of the bill so they can be tracked but not counted against outbound usage.

[GreenLantern]

Voipo doesn't charge for outbound Toll Free calls. Vonage doesn't, AT&T doesn't, Comcast doesn't. In fact, I doubt ANY major VOIP provider charges their customers for outbound Toll Free calls.

I would prefer not to charge for them either, especially since I don't have any associated cost that I need to pass through to customers.

Unfortunately, the current system forces me to charge for outbound Toll Free calls.

I'm simply requesting that Voipo address this and allow resellers the option of NOT charging for (and not limiting) outbound Toll Free calls.

If someone else wants to charge for them, then it would be their choice.

[GreenLantern]

maybe a option like international calls to enable toll free calls so they show in a separate column of the bill so they can be tracked but not counted against outbound usage.

This would work perfectly. :)

[uf_shane]

Voipo doesn't charge for outbound Toll Free calls. Vonage doesn't, AT&T doesn't, Comcast doesn't. In fact, I doubt ANY major VOIP provider charges their customers for outbound Toll Free calls.

I would prefer not to charge for them either, especially since I don't have any associated cost that I need to pass through to customers.

Unfortunately, the current system forces me to charge for outbound Toll Free calls.

I'm simply requesting that Voipo address this and allow resellers the option of NOT charging for (and not limiting) outbound Toll Free calls.

If someone else wants to charge for them, then it would be their choice.

These business do not charge a fee to call a toll free number, but it will count against your minute usage for any of these companies as they are considered an outbout call...

Does that make sense?

[GreenLantern]

This is still causing me some issues.

Tim, I love how the International calling limit was modified to have a dollar limit, rather than only a minute limit.

If y'all could do the same for "local" calls, that would solve the problem of (outbound) toll free calls counting against minute limits, even though they are no-cost calls.

Any chance we could put such a mod on the to-do list? (soon?) :)

[uf_shane]

So I have been away up north on a project and am just getting back in the saddle...

My question is how you are having your customers login to their sip... are they logging into the toll free number or is there a local number and the toll free is forwarded to the local...

All outbound calls should be set to the local number not the toll free.

Just trying to understand your customers setup.

[GreenLantern]

uf_shane:

I'm talking about a customer with a regular "FULL" local account. They don't have any Toll Free Numbers on their account.

They are frequently calling a Toll Free Number at their corporate HQ for conference calls.

The conference calls last 45 to 90 minutes. The company HQ pays for the incoming Toll Free line and incoming calls.

But my customer was using up their allotted minutes on what should be free calls to them.

Customer didn't like that, so I already lost that account. But I would love to see this issue addressed so it doesn't come up again later.

Adding a dollar limit similar to how International calls now have a dollar limit would solve the problem.

[uf_shane]

Hmm so it is a catch 22... toll free numbers were created to in theory make it so that when you called that number it was a local call instead of a toll call (long distance)

When you call a toll free number with a cell phone, you bet that counts against the minute usage

I think there is a misconception by the user on this... now if VOIPo really does not charge usage fees on an outbound call to a toll free number, who is eating that cost?

An outbound call is an outbound call does not matter what number is called unless it is a call to a country or area that becomes a Toll call.

I speak from experience in working with a Telco handling PUC escalations. Believe it or not if you have a metered plan with a Telco then yes calling toll free does count towards that meter.

Though I understand your situation, your customer is actually wrong in this instance and the PUC would actually back you.

[uf_shane]

Just to point out...

Call from
43221XXXXX

To
86638XXXXX

Start Time
10:50

Duration
116

Fee
0.000

This is a call from one of my numbers into a conf call... Toll free and correct me if I am wrong Tim, that 116 minutes of duration did go towards minute usage, right?

[GreenLantern]

Ok, here's another one. I have a customer who wants to switch from Vonage.

She only uses about 160 US/Canada minutes. But she makes about 500+ Toll Free calls (outbound) each month.

We went over her Vonage bill... they separate the TF calls out and show them as "FREE CALLS". They do NOT count towards her 500 minute Vonage limit in any way.

So, I would like to ask Voipo to handle this by modifying their tracking software.

Toll Free calls need to be tracked separately.

[chevyman]

So is there any update on this, the counting of minutes to toll free numbers do they count or not?

[VOIPoTim]

So is there any update on this, the counting of minutes to toll free numbers do they count or not?

The system is designed to count all usage (including TF) in the minute limits, but resellers are NOT charged for the toll-free minutes. This is by design and allows resellers to maximize profit.

This is standard in most cases even though some providers don't do it. As an example, if you call a toll-free number from your cell phone it still uses your minutes even though it's toll-free.

We have the suggestion for making this something the reseller can toggle on/off in our feedback list for consideration in future updates.

[GreenLantern]

I don't think we should worry so much about what cellular companies are doing. Voipo resellers don't compete against cellular.

Instead, we should look at what the major voip companies, like Vonage, are doing. They separate out Toll Free calls and do not count them towards minutes used.

I realize this may have been a "design" decision by Voipo, but I suggest it needs to be reconsidered. It doesn't maximize profit for resellers. It makes us uncompetitive in a significant area and makes our system look somewhat haphazard.

My own personal first choice would be to see TF calls simply separated out so they don't count against the minute usage limit. I believe the TF calls already have a distinct flag in the call logs, so they should be easy to separate out.

Another option would be an implementation that allows for a single dollar limit setting for an entire account, including any sub accounts (like virtual numbers, fax numbers and toll free numbers). This would allow resellers to bundle various types of numbers into a single service plan with a pooled usage limit. Right now, resellers have a disadvantage when selling addon virtual numbers, fax numbers and toll free numbers. We have to either build a separate bundle of minutes into the price, which makes us less competitive, or we must bill by the minute which requires a lot of hands on billing each month.

I'm eager to see improvements in these areas.

[VOIPoTim]

It's something we've added to our suggestion list to review for possible future development.



I don't think we should worry so much about what cellular companies are doing. Voipo resellers don't compete against cellular.


Instead, we should look at what the major voip companies, like Vonage, are doing. They separate out Toll Free calls and do not count them towards minutes used.



This is just our take and everyone has a different business model, but I strongly feel the real competition for VoIP companies is landline and cellular. That customer base is where 99% of the profit is for VoIP providers. It's definitely what's fueled our growth this year (we've quadrupled in staff and doubled in customers already this year).