No more cloned 2nd line feature?

[ThorsDad]

I received an unhappy email from a new VOIPo customer who received an ATA with only phone jack. I took a look at the VOIPo website and the Cloned 2nd Line feature seems to have been quietly removed. What is the deal?? This is/was a great feature and is being offered by those other guys.

[usa2k]

I thought the single port version was just a Reseller option?
Perhaps shipped by mistake? What does the device say it is?

http://forums.voipo.com/showthread.php/5104-New-device-model-available-Device-Models-Announcement?p=26448#post26448
This is an HT701 for Resellers at this link (Posted by VOIPoDanielC 03-08-2012 01:59 PM)

[VOIPoTim]

We have different promotions and price points. Many people assume the offers don't change when the countdown timer on the site goes to 0, but that's not always the case.

The current $129 offer does not include the cloned line. In the past when we offered the cloned line, it was at the $149 price point. There's just no profitable way to offer the cloned line at that price point unless we added in extra hidden fees like our competitors do to offset the cost.

Any competitors offering that feature are charging substantially more when you factor in shipping costs and other "fees" that we do not charge and this offsets the cost of providing a 2 line device and the additional usage that comes with that.

We are testing to see how the conversions are at the difference price points to see if more customers would rather pay more for all the extra functionality or less for basic service. There has to be balance with it, but many services potential customers compare pricing to are single line services and priced accordingly so the $129 price point is a test to check that theory and to see how customers respond to cheaper offers with less included or more expensive offers with more included.


I'd be happy to see if there's something we can do for you/them or switch the account to a different promotion that includes the cloned line since it seems like an important feature for you/them. You can e-mail me at tim @ voipo.com to discuss.

[ymhee_bcex]

can I switch to lower price point since I am not using cloned line? As an added bonus (to Voipo), I'd be happy to return the adapter, since I am not using it either? Oh, and I am not using ditching / blacklisting / Do not disturb or any other feature that prevents callers from reaching me.

Note, I am very happy with the phone service itself! No complaints there!

[budmaster]

I never thought much of the cloned 2nd line feature when signing up. It seemed like a feature I would never use. Now that VOIPO is my only home phone, I am amazed how much I appreciate the cloned 2nd line feature.

[ymhee_bcex]

Obviously, everybody's calling pattern is different. My cousin has a cloned line in her medical office, and she is raving about it. On the other hand, I am using my own adapter, and my wife loves that she can call domestic (through Voipo) and international (through other provider) from the same handset.

[christcorp]

I don't use the clone line per se. I use the virtual number as the 2nd line. I use that number for the very few faxes I do. I also use it as an incoming line for my mom and sister because they live on the other side of the country, and they can dial a local number and not have to deal with long distance charges.

[MisterEd]

I don't use the clone line per se. I use the virtual number as the 2nd line. I use that number for the very few faxes I do. I also use it as an incoming line for my mom and sister because they live on the other side of the country, and they can dial a local number and not have to deal with long distance charges. People still pay for LD? I thought everything was "unlimited" US calls these days. Even PSTN. Guess not.

[christcorp]

Believe it or not, most people don't do voip, and most still use POTS over cell phones. Are there unlimited plan with POTS? Yes; but most people are on the same plan they've always been on. Most people don't like change.

This is also why I use SipDroid on my android. With my kids, wife, and I all on Verizon, all calls to each other are included. Using SipDroid on my android, I can have a very inexpensive cell phone plan. I have a family share plan for all for of us. It's only 500 minutes, and we NEVER go over the 500 minutes. You can definitely get unlimited in anything if you want to pay for it. I prefer not to pay for things I don't need.

[chpalmer]

people will trust you to watch their children before they trust you with their phone service.

[will]

I don't use the clone line per se. I use the virtual number as the 2nd line. I use that number for the very few faxes I do. I also use it as an incoming line for my mom and sister because they live on the other side of the country, and they can dial a local number and not have to deal with long distance charges.
I've been informed that this option is no longer available as well. My fiance and I are moving in together, and it would be nice to port her current phone number to my voipo account as a virtual number priced at an additional $36 per year rather than a second separate account with separate ata hardware and higher pricing. My current account is paid in full until August of 2015 and I feel that I should be entitled to the features that were available when my original payment was tendered. I feel as though I'm a bait-and-switch victim here, since I'm no longer able to use the services I paid for almost a year ago.

[VOIPoTim]

I've been informed that this option is no longer available as well. My fiance and I are moving in together, and it would be nice to port her current phone number to my voipo account as a virtual number priced at an additional $36 per year rather than a second separate account with separate ata hardware and higher pricing. My current account is paid in full until August of 2015 and I feel that I should be entitled to the features that were available when my original payment was tendered. I feel as though I'm a bait-and-switch victim here, since I'm no longer able to use the services I paid for almost a year ago.

There's no bait and switch here. We've never advertised the virtual number ability or "officially" offered that functionality. We did allow it though at one point, but stopped offering that ability around the end of 2011 because too many people were abusing it by using it as 2 lines all the time rather than 1 line and a 2nd occasional use line. We would have businesses ordering it and then ordering a virtual number and then using both lines constantly where they really needed 2 full accounts to justify 2 full-time use lines.

So while it was never offered officially to begin with as an official feature, if you signed up back when we were allowing people to do it and need it, feel free to e-mail me at tim @ voipo.com and we can put it on your account manually.

[VOIPoTim]

There's no bait and switch here. We've never advertised the virtual number ability or "officially" offered that functionality. We did allow it though at one point, but stopped offering that ability around the end of 2011 because too many people were abusing it by using it as 2 lines all the time rather than 1 line and a 2nd occasional use line. We would have businesses ordering it and then ordering a virtual number and then using both lines constantly where they really needed 2 full accounts to justify 2 full-time use lines.

So while it was never offered officially to begin with as an official feature, if you signed up back when we were allowing people to do it and need it, feel free to e-mail me at tim @ voipo.com and we can put it on your account manually.

When I replied, I e-mailed a developer asking them to activate the "virtual number ability" on your account and I just got a reply stating that it's in your control panel and that all accounts prior to us stopping allowing it (even though we never officially offered it) still have it in their panel and that it was simply removed from newly created accounts when we stopped offering it. So if you order a Virtual Number, your account still has the ability to make a virtual number into an addon line by going to BETA - 2nd Line. So it's actually been there the entire time...support will not know about it though since it was not an official feature.

[will]

When I replied, I e-mailed a developer asking them to activate the "virtual number ability" on your account and I just got a reply stating that it's in your control panel and that all accounts prior to us stopping allowing it (even though we never officially offered it) still have it in their panel and that it was simply removed from newly created accounts when we stopped offering it. So if you order a Virtual Number, your account still has the ability to make a virtual number into an addon line by going to BETA - 2nd Line. So it's actually been there the entire time...support will not know about it though since it was not an official feature.
Tim, I can see where you're coming from regarding abuse of the ability to use virtual numbers as a second line. However, you offer different levels and types of services for different classes of customer. If a business signs up for the residential tier services and then proceeds to use it in violation of the terms for residential accounts, you should have legal recourse to either bill them at business rates or discontinue their service. There are legitimate reasons for residential customers to have a primary phone number and virtual phone number servicing two separate analog telephones via ATA hardware that has two RJ-11 connections on the back panel. In my case, there is a teenager in the home who seems to have a telephone handset growing out of the side of her head, and it would be nice not to have to fight with her when my need to use the phone conflicts with her socializing. Instead of depriving residential customers of functions that are being abused by business customers who purchased the wrong service plan, the simple answer would be to more strictly enforce the terms of residential service and/or provide business customers with ATA hardware that only has a single RJ-11 connection on the back panel and avoid the possibility of abuse altogether. Regardless, I'm glad I was mistaken and the functionality I initially paid for is still intact. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[will]

It should be clarified that controls for the "2nd line" functionality (for those who have access to it) are found under the "Beta" tab in the old vPanel site at secure.voipo.com. I can't find these controls anywhere at beta.voipo.com. Hopefully this is an oversight that will be corrected before the new vPanel beta test is complete.

[VOIPoTim]

It should be clarified that controls for the "2nd line" functionality (for those who have access to it) are found under the "Beta" tab in the old vPanel site at secure.voipo.com. I can't find these controls anywhere at beta.voipo.com. Hopefully this is an oversight that will be corrected before the new vPanel beta test is complete.

It will remain in the old panel, but it's not something we're developing for the new panel because we no longer offer that ability. You will continue to be able to access it in the old panel (old one will still run once BETA one becomes primary).

[usa2k]

Hey Tim, this implies a cloned line is standard:
http://voipo.com/help/article/what-is-the-2nd-line-cloned-100.html (http://voipo.com/help/article/what-is-the-2nd-line-cloned-100.html)
By default, the 2nd port is a clone of the first line port configured with the same phone number but just
completely independent from line 1

[VOIPoTim]

Thanks for pointing that out. We should update the KB article.

In terms of the 2nd line, it's actually back now though. It is not called a "Rollover Line". :)