Cancellation = Replacement fee??

[melvytx]

I have been with Voipo for over 3 years. Last week, my adapter (model HT502) stopped working. I have no dial tone and cannot make/receive calls. I was issued a ticket two days ago. After not getting a response yesterday, I called support. The representative determined my box was no longer working and told me I had to pay a replacement fee. I told him no way I was paying a replacement fee and demanded my service be cancelled. The rep then explained that even if I cancelled I would still have to pay a replacement fee. I was livid. The rep then went to get a supervisor. I waited over 10 minutes and never spoke with a supervisor. The rep told me that his supervisor said he was very busy and that he would respond directly to my ticket. Again, two days later, no response. I have never heard of a company asking for a replacement fee although a customer is cancelling. I have also never heard of a supervisor being too busy to talk and never responding. Anyone mind shedding some light on this?

[JacobsLive]

I have been with Voipo for over 3 years. Last week, my adapter (model HT502) stopped working. I have no dial tone and cannot make/receive calls. I was issued a ticket two days ago. After not getting a response yesterday, I called support. The representative determined my box was no longer working and told me I had to pay a replacement fee. I told him no way I was paying a replacement fee and demanded my service be cancelled. The rep then explained that even if I cancelled I would still have to pay a replacement fee. I was livid. The rep then went to get a supervisor. I waited over 10 minutes and never spoke with a supervisor. The rep told me that his supervisor said he was very busy and that he would respond directly to my ticket. Again, two days later, no response. I have never heard of a company asking for a replacement fee although a customer is cancelling. I have also never heard or a supervisor being too busy to talk and never responding. Anyone mind shedding some light on this?
Are you you talking about shipping charge or replacement charge itself? In the past the companies I have been with never charged for an adapter even if they quit working. But most companies charge nominal shipping fee. Even if you cancel you need to send it back to them and you pay shipping charge, which is normal and fair. But if the company asking for real "replacement charge" in either case is not a good idea and I believe they don't know how to retain a customer based on a silly matter. I believe you should hear from them soon.

[wingsohot]

I believe the charge would be if the adapter was not returned after cancelling service. That is in the terms, that you must return your adapter in order to cancel service.

[melvytx]

Thanks for the replies! It was definitely a replacement fee versus shipping charges. After I told the rep to cancel my service and send a box so I could return the adapter, he explained to me Voipo would not accept a nonworking adapter. It was at this point I asked for the supervisor that was too busy to speak. Today marks day 3 with no response/email.

[JacobsLive]

Thanks for the replies! It was definitely a replacement fee versus shipping charges. After I told the rep to cancel my service and send a box so I could return the adapter, he explained to me Voipo would not accept a nonworking adapter. It was at this point I asked for the supervisor that was too busy to speak. Today marks day 3 with no response/email.
Wow, that is not right if your side of the story is true. Typical life span of a voip adapter is 3-5 years. If you are luck it may last longer. If this was a VOIPO issued adapter and it stopped working VOIPO should replace the adapter as a general business practice. If the adapter is burnt out after 3 years and if the company is asking the customer to replace it at customer's cost that is ridiculous and unethical. You might be able to grab HT502 adapter for 30 some dollars from online. I truly believe some one from VOIPO will sort out the issue for you. I am a new customer for VOIPO and still waiting for my adapter in mail. So I am not sure about their customer service, but hope they will make sure the customer is happy (at least a long time customer like you).

[VOIPoBrandon]

Hello,

All devices are tested and working before they are sent out.

A device replacement fee is assessed when the device is lost or damaged at the fault of the subscriber.

We simply must protect ourselves from customer / device abuse - as believe it or not, we do have some customers that attempt to get a replacement device every other month, as a result of them damaging the device from having it plugged into house wiring.

Sure enough every time - the weather report in their area always has some kind of lightning / T-STORMS :cool:.

We have not charged for device replacements otherwise, when a device is simply end of life.

While I am not too sure on your particular case - and I'm more than willing to further look into it for you and get to the bottom of this if you could provide your Ticket ID.

Thanks!

[redoneusa]

A replacement cost is typical I think, I just completed a Phonepower account was told to return the adapter within 30 days or be charge $99 for the adapter and additional $10 if the power supply is not included in what I returned.

In addition, I covered the shipping. Such things are industry standard and as Brandon mentions are designed to prevent wide spread abuse.

[JacobsLive]

Thank you Brandon for the detailed information. Glad to know you guys do not charge for a typical adapter replacement other than abuse or damage (customer fault) etc. which a standard industry practice.

@redoneusa, I came here from PhonePower as well :) I brought their adapter from fry's with a MIR. Now the adapter is mine to keep as the contract is over. But if they sent you one, yes you are suppose to send it back to them "with the power supply". Typical mailing cost with USPS priority mail is less than $6 and I guess no one should complain about that :)

[robhouston]

Just out of curiosity, how much is the "replacement fee" for a dead ATA?

Thanks!

[robhouston]

The reason I'm curious is that you can find brand new, unlocked HT-502's on Ebay with free shipping for $40. I'm assuming that Voipo would allow these to be provisioned (and locked to them), since they already use HT-502's?

[JacobsLive]

The reason I'm curious is that you can find brand new, unlocked HT-502's on Ebay with free shipping for $40. I'm assuming that Voipo would allow these to be provisioned (and locked to them), since they already use HT-502's?
As per my understanding that is possible. VOIPO has a BYOD option and HT502 should be provisioned without any problem. As far as the "replacement fee" if the ATA is dead of any reason other than customer abuse or negligence it should be free as per Brandon's statement.

[robhouston]

My question is not related to BYOD, but is about Voipo allowing a customer-owned HT-502 to be provisioned and locked by them, not as a BYOD device. I believe this is important, since Voipo does not allow an "add-on number" to be used in a BYOD situation.

For what it's worth, I don't think Brandon's statement made it clear about how they actually determine whether an ATA is non-working because of abuse.

I'm still also interested to know how much they charge for a replacement HT-502.

[VOIPoTim]

My question is not related to BYOD, but is about Voipo allowing a customer-owned HT-502 to be provisioned and locked by them, not as a BYOD device. I believe this is important, since Voipo does not allow an "add-on number" to be used in a BYOD situation.

For what it's worth, I don't think Brandon's statement made it clear about how they actually determine whether an ATA is non-working because of abuse.

I'm still also interested to know how much they charge for a replacement HT-502.

Our non-return or replacement fee for customer damaged devices is $49.95. This includes the labor and administrative costs of setting it up in our system, provisioning it, etc.

Our Grandstream devices are tied to us by MAC at Grandstream and will redirect to VOIPo provisioning automatically when it hits the Grandstream firmware server (even if the VOIPo provisioning is not set). With a third-party device, the only way to get it to use our provisioning is to set the "config server path" and point it to provisioning manually.

[JacobsLive]

Thank you Tim for making it further clear.



For what it's worth, I don't think Brandon's statement made it clear about how they actually determine whether an ATA is non-working because of abuse.


IMO that depends from case to case and it is hard to come up with one or two reasons. It could be physical abuse or putting extra load to ATA by connecting to non-recommended equipment, wiring etc.

Wish you all very Happy Holidays! It's Merry Christmas for me :) See ya all after 25th :)

[robhouston]

Very good, Tim, thanks very much for the additional detail.

[melvytx]

Just an update...the supervisor finally emailed me back. Since have device plugged into phone outlet, Voipo feels this was neglect on my part since they assume my house has "electrical wear". As I stated previously, I have been with Voipo for over three years so not sure what constitutes as electrical wear.

Redoneusa, most companies do require return of their equipment which I had no problem in doing. The phone representative, however, told me they would not accept a dead ATA and would automatically charge me for this. Since the supervisor did not mention this in his reply, I'm assuming the phone rep did not have a clue as to what he was talking about.

Robhouston, the replacement fee $49.95. While there may be ATA available on eBay, I have decided to take my business elsewhere.

[VOIPoBrandon]

Just an update...the supervisor finally emailed me back. Since have device plugged into phone outlet, Voipo feels this was neglect on my part since they assume my house has "electrical wear". As I stated previously, I have been with Voipo for over three years so not sure what constitutes as electrical wear.

Redoneusa, most companies do require return of their equipment which I had no problem in doing. The phone representative, however, told me they would not accept a dead ATA and would automatically charge me for this. Since the supervisor did not mention this in his reply, I'm assuming the phone rep did not have a clue as to what he was talking about.

Robhouston, the replacement fee $49.95. While there may be ATA available on eBay, I have decided to take my business elsewhere.

This is one such case - house wiring has been proven time and time again to result in damaged devices. I am not sure where you are located without locating your account and address, however I'm going out on an assumption here that you are somewhere in TX based on your screen name. Sure enough when I check the weather in VOIPo's Texas Office / Zipcode (77092) there is lightning in the forecast this week.

Would it be an accurate statement to say that you have experienced lightning around the time of the device being damaged?

I have a feeling that this would be the case - please do let me know if otherwise.

Essentially plugging your phone into your house wiring makes the VOIPo device extra susceptible to any electrical surges that may traverse over your house wiring (regardless if its a closed circuit), keep in mind electricity can/does travel through air.

[chpalmer]

keep in mind electricity can/does travel through air.

As a radio systems engineer I can tell you we spend thousands at a radio site to try and stop this from happening but still lose equipment sometimes. Lightning strikes (and close by strikes) take stuff out all the time.

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[JacobsLive]

This is one such case - house wiring has been proven time and time again to result in damaged devices. I am not sure where you are located without locating your account and address, however I'm going out on an assumption here that you are somewhere in TX based on your screen name. Sure enough when I check the weather in VOIPo's Texas Office / Zipcode (77092) there is lightning in the forecast this week.

Would it be an accurate statement to say that you have experienced lightning around the time of the device being damaged?

I have a feeling that this would be the case - please do let me know if otherwise.

Essentially plugging your phone into your house wiring makes the VOIPo device extra susceptible to any electrical surges that may traverse over your house wiring (regardless if its a closed circuit), keep in mind electricity can/does travel through air.
You are not helping Brandon! He made up his mind to leave your company and you are now adding fuel to that decision. If a 3 year old Grandstream device is dead, I would consider that its EOL than throwing all the BS on customer. Here I guess his honesty is being raped. HT502 is capable for running home wiring up to 1Km on 24 AWG wire without any problem as far as the external telco line is disconnected. Now you can blame the customer, his location, point to local weather station and so on. I honestly did not find any effort from you as a company to retain a customer here over a 3 year old worn out device. I know there might be people trying to take advantage. However, each case should be handled differently I guess. JMHO.

I have used HT502 with home wiring connecting to an alarm system and kitchen phone on the second port just over two years before I moved out from that home and switched provider. I did not encounter any such problem. Having said that, I understand each case has its own causes and determining it is a task.

[VOIPoBrandon]

Jacobs,

Not my intentions what-so-ever.

As I previously stated, in my defense.

1) Please provide me with a Ticket-ID / case example (this has not happened yet).

2) Please let me know if lightning / electrical damage is not the case in this example.

If electrical damage is not the scenario we are dealing with, than I would be very happy to personally oversee that there is a replacement device sent out.

One other variable / question you are forgetting is while the OP may be a three year old customer - how many device replacements have already been issued?

I do not know in this particular scenario. However, I'm willing to bet this would not be his first replacement.

There are customers who repeatedly damage devices, whether intentionally or not - electrical damage occurring while the device is plugged into house wiring has been proven time and time again to be a factual event.

So again - while the OP may be a three year old customer - this does not mean that his device was three years old and that the current damaged device is his initial device when first subscribing to service.

I will end this as my last reply - simply stating that we do look into each and every case individually and we do not mandate a device replacement fee without merit.

Have a great rest of the week.

[melvytx]

The ticket number is IJC-797035. I reported this incident nearly two weeks ago. In case you do not know, Texas was experiencing a severe drought up until two days ago (http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/75048). My house was not hit by lightening during this drought I can assure you. Please feel free to look at my history of device replacement as I am certainly not a customer requesting a new device on a frequent basis as you stated previously. I will say this is my 2nd device as less than six months into my service in 2009, the adapter I had was frequently dropping calls (important note...I was NOT using house wiring). After the back and forth, I have decided to take my business elsewhere especially after receiving another email from the supervisor this morning explaining I will be charged if my returned equipment is received DOA. Thanks but no thanks.

[redoneusa]

In fairness to VoiPo the way they do business is no different to any other provider. Good luck with your new service.

[ymhee_bcex]

In fairness to VoiPo the way they do business is no different to any other provider. Good luck with your new service.
Be careful when you say "any other provider". When I cancelled service with VoicePulse, the guy said that since it was over two years, I don't need to send the adapter back. They are not sending such adapters to new customers, so there is no point to request return "just because"...

[JacobsLive]

Be careful when you say "any other provider". When I cancelled service with VoicePulse, the guy said that since it was over two years, I don't need to send the adapter back. They are not sending such adapters to new customers, so there is no point to request return "just because"...

Hey ymhee_bcex don't I know you from somewhere else? :P
With my last provider I got their branded adapter from store and it came free after MIR. After I canceled the service, they did not ask me to return the device. Though, if they ask, I will gladly return it as it is locked (with mac address) to their server/service only.