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VOIPoTim
10-12-2008, 12:38 AM
As you know, we've been using the Grandstream HT286 device and it's been working very well overall with the exception of a few complaints about MWI. In the future, we'll be using the HT502 which is a 2 line device with a built-in router.

For the bulk of users, the 286 has been plug and play. With that being said, there have been a few cases where routers were blocking things, customers did not have routers at all, or we had issues with routers changing IPs too quickly when using DHCP, etc. As far as I know we've been able to work through 100% of these cases to get the user online.

Overall while this was not a huge number of users, there's opportunity to virtually eliminate these support issues by moving to the HT502 which has a built-in router and can be put in front of any pre-existing router.

http://grandstream.com/ht502.html

One interesting thing that I was surprised about is the number of orders coming in from people who obviously aren't tech savvy. This seems to be a combination of referrals, HostGator customers, and ironically people seeing the reviews on DSLReports. Given our business model and policies (such as BYOD restrictions), we expect that overall our customer base will be comprised more of the plug and play type over time anyway. Most of the really tech savvy people want more control, but may use our service as their "family line" or in some cases just because they trust it's reliable and something they won't be forced to play with (and they can play with other PAYG services as they are in the mood to do so).

With that being said, we think this will reduce support overall, reduce any chances of service problems, and overall be better in line with the "plug it up and forget about it" strategy.

We've made arrangements to exchange all unopened inventory still in the cases and have a large shipment of the HT502's on the way. Future orders will be filled with this device.

If your current device is working well, there is no need at all to upgrade. We're continuing to fully support 286's as well since many resellers will choose to offer them given their lower cost.

There are no plans to offer a "2 Line" feature as some other providers have done, but the 2nd line port can be activated with a 2nd VOIPo account instead of using 2 devices as has been needed in the past.

scott2020
10-12-2008, 09:20 AM
That looks like a pretty nice device.

I was wondering how it would fit in with the devices that are provided by the ISP that already do the firewall/nat functions. For example, I know a lot of Charter cable customers who have a device that has wireless, firewall, NAT, and so on. My guess would be the Grandstream WAN port would connect to the cable modem with nat functions, and get an address (with those, customer's PC's get a 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x address) and then the Grandstream LAN port would go to the customer's PC (or inside switch) and acting as a DHCP server, would then assign the customer's inside IP's to computers.

Also, does anyone know how the QOS is in these? It was good to see you could specify upstream and downstream bandwidth.

Brian
10-12-2008, 11:44 AM
Will the 2nd port also be able to be used with a non-VOIPo account if someone had a need to do that?

scott2020
10-12-2008, 12:51 PM
One other thing I thought of. I didn't see anything in the manual about PPTP or IPSEC pass-through for home users using VPN clients to connect back to their home office. I would bet in this day and age pretty much anything will do that, but many people use this function from their home office.
Scott

Danzo
10-12-2008, 08:54 PM
Great choice for Voipo. I have been using the 502 for almost a year now with Phonepower and have had no problems what so ever. Sends VM notification to all my handsets unlike the 286. You will be quite happy with the results. :)

VOIPoTim
10-13-2008, 08:27 PM
Will the 2nd port also be able to be used with a non-VOIPo account if someone had a need to do that?

Right now it's kind of an all or nothing deal with provisioning the way GS handles that.

I can't promise this, but what I was thinking about earlier is possibly putting something in an "advanced" CP which allows users to put in the basic info for the 2nd line (third party info) and have it be stored in our provisioning. That way we still provision it, but it appeases those who want to play with another account somewhere or whatever vs being completely unused without it affecting anything.

Any thoughts on this?

N9MD
10-13-2008, 08:54 PM
... One interesting thing that I was surprised about is the number of orders coming in from people who obviously aren't tech savvy. This seems to be a combination of referrals, HostGator customers, and ironically people seeing the reviews on DSLReports. Given our business model and policies (such as BYOD restrictions), we expect that overall our customer base will be comprised more of the plug and play type over time anyway. Most of the really tech savvy people want more control, but may use our service as their "family line" or in some cases just because they trust it's reliable and something they won't be forced to play with (and they can play with other PAYG services as they are in the mood to do so).

With that being said, we think this will reduce support overall, reduce any chances of service problems, and overall be better in line with the "plug it up and forget about it" strategy.

Tim. why are you surprised? I and others had recognized the direction in which VOIPo was heading once the public offering was afoot. Many of us have stated in posts here and in BBR that we alpha/beta participants were being used (in a good way) to polish the product because of our technical skills and knowledge of how to put the system through its paces.

Latecomers coming to VOIPo from BBR in the last few months were well aware of the "locked" ATA and inability to "play" with the adapter. Folks coming from HostGator probably had no idea that one could actually customize an ATA or use such a device with a 2nd line ... much less put a 2nd provider on the 2nd line.

As y'all know, I have had (and still have) a variety of VoIP providers over the last few years --- including some that have come and gone (R.I.P.). But I must say that VOIPo is the first VoIP product that I and my wife are comfortable with ... comfortable enough to use VOIPo for my primary NJ home line, without any need to "play" with the adapter settings. I have finally learned to "set it and forget it" even though I'm using a PAP2T as my ATA.

Your last statement '... we think this will reduce support overall, reduce any chances of service problems, and overall be better in line with the "plug it up and forget about it" strategy' is absolutely the way to go to be successful with the general public. I realize that you are actually taking a page from Vonage (and a few other "locked box" providers) with this philosophy ... but VOIPo has certainly learned a great deal from Vonage's missteps ... and the HostGator "connection" surely can't hurt.

KUTGW!

N9MD
10-13-2008, 09:01 PM
... I was thinking about ... is possibly putting something in an "advanced" CP which allows users to put in the basic info for the 2nd line (third party info) and have it be stored in our provisioning... appeases those who want to play...

Any thoughts on this?
Why appease? If you've designed your "product model" to minimize problems for your support department ... and if 1% or less of your future client base has the awareness and capability of messing with the adapter, why bother at all? The other 99% of your customers will be as happy as a pig in slop if they get a dial tone when they pick up the phone ... and all their incoming/outgoing calls connect every time.

NY Tel Guy
10-13-2008, 09:40 PM
Will this new adapter fix the 3 way calling issue? What is the issue you say?

Once you flash and get the second caller on the line, there is no way to toggle back and forth to the 1st call etc., nor have I been successful doing a call waiting/switch back and forth thing either.

VOIPoTim
10-14-2008, 09:41 AM
We're getting a lot of people asking to upgrade their device. Please don't do this.

If you have a legitimate problem (as some of you do) with your current device, we can swap it out. If you're just looking to upgrade though, there's really no point because the devices work virtually the same.

christcorp
10-14-2008, 02:01 PM
I personally like the 286. Tim, Question?? I know you allow us alpha/beta users to do BYOD, but if a person wanted 2 lines, would they be offered the choice of "2" 286's or must they get the new 501 with 2 lines. Reason being, some people, like me, have a pretty elaborate network which has some really excellent routers and hardware QOS. Better QOS than ANY voip adapter or firmware routers can provide. I, and many others, will always prefer to have our voip adapters BEHIND our router. If I was to get a 501, not that I need one, I would STILL place it BEHIND my existing router/network. The router portion would obviously be wasted, but it would operate much better on my network than a router/ata combo trying to run my entire network. It's just that the 286 is so much cheaper, that if it was me, I'd rather have 2 standalone 286 ATA's than 1 501. Even if I did place the 501 BEHIND my network. Thx... Mike....

NY Tel Guy
10-14-2008, 05:39 PM
We're getting a lot of people asking to upgrade their device. Please don't do this.

If you have a legitimate problem (as some of you do) with your current device, we can swap it out. If you're just looking to upgrade though, there's really no point because the devices work virtually the same.I actually am very satisfied with the size and sound quality of the 286 I have now....

I just want to be able to do the call waiting toggle thingie and 3 way calls and if the adapter I have now can do that, I am happy.

GTOJim
10-14-2008, 11:01 PM
I actually am very satisfied with the size and sound quality of the 286 I have now....

I just want to be able to do the call waiting toggle thingie and 3 way calls and if the adapter I have now can do that, I am happy.


Same goes for me, I would also like it to active my phones when I have a voice mail message. Wife doesn't look for the green blinking light on the adapter to see if anyone left a message. Blinking phone works much better for her.

usa2k
10-15-2008, 03:56 AM
Tim

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21264024-Other-Baffled-Grandstream-HT502-behind-router-doesnt-work

VOIPoTim
10-15-2008, 04:24 AM
Tim

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21264024-Other-Baffled-Grandstream-HT502-behind-router-doesnt-work

Yeah I'm pretty sure this is just a network setup issue likely what the last poster said with the IPs conflicting.

It works fine behind router for me at office and home.

burris
10-15-2008, 11:34 AM
Why appease? If you've designed your "product model" to minimize problems for your support department ... and if 1% or less of your future client base has the awareness and capability of messing with the adapter, why bother at all? The other 99% of your customers will be as happy as a pig in slop if they get a dial tone when they pick up the phone ... and all their incoming/outgoing calls connect every time.

Excellent thought. I couldn't have said it better....

NY Tel Guy
10-15-2008, 11:43 AM
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is just a network setup issue likely what the last poster said with the IPs conflicting.

It works fine behind router for me at office and home.So Tim, is the fact that I have a 286 and cannot do 3 way calls or toggle back and forth between 2 calls (like on call waiting) a non-functioning feature of the 286 that is corrected with the 502 or might I just have a "bum 286" that needs a firmware update etc?....:)

scott2020
10-15-2008, 11:54 AM
I also have the 286 and see the same problem with the toggle. I swear though I have been able to call home, wife flashes over to pick up the call, we talk for a few, and she goes back to the first call. But, I just tested it with her and it doesn't work. We were on the first call, flashed over to the second call, then flashed back to the first and had just dead air on both calls. We had to hang up and re-dial.

Scott

dswartz
10-15-2008, 12:45 PM
Sounds like other people have had this issue:

http://forum.voip.com/viewtopic.php?id=5347

NY Tel Guy
10-15-2008, 12:52 PM
Sounds like other people have had this issue:

http://forum.voip.com/viewtopic.php?id=5347

Thanks for that link. Must be an issue with the GS 286.

dswartz
10-15-2008, 01:08 PM
Quick question: I was looking at my HT286 (it registers to my asterisk system, not voipo's servers). I had the same issue as you guys, but never got into looking as to why. Here's an issue: HT286 has two ways of doing 3-way: "bell style", where you diddle the flash hook like you guys do, and the other way, where you press flash to put A on hold, dial '*23' followed by B's number, and when (if) they answer, press flash again. NOTE WELL: the default is mode 2, NOT mode 1 :( I haven't yet tested this (I'm at work right now), and I'm not sure you guys can (isn't the ht286 locked? do any of you have BYOD credentials and can prove/disprove my hypothesis?) If this is it, it's a simple voipo config change they can push out to you all.

NY Tel Guy
10-15-2008, 01:17 PM
Quick question: I was looking at my HT286 (it registers to my asterisk system, not voipo's servers). I had the same issue as you guys, but never got into looking as to why. Here's an issue: HT286 has two ways of doing 3-way: "bell style", where you diddle the flash hook like you guys do, and the other way, where you press flash to put A on hold, dial '*23' followed by B's number, and when (if) they answer, press flash again. NOTE WELL: the default is mode 2, NOT mode 1 :( I haven't yet tested this (I'm at work right now), and I'm not sure you guys can (isn't the ht286 locked? do any of you have BYOD credentials and can prove/disprove my hypothesis?) If this is it, it's a simple voipo config change they can push out to you all.Thanks.
I was able to get into my 286 and Bell style was not selected. I selected, saved and re-booted. When it came back - Bell Style was once again de-selected.

There is an issue with some of the 286's where no changes are saved even if you change them.
I think I own one.
Looks like I'll be catching the "502" train home shortly.....lol;)
And thanks.

dswartz
10-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Well, that's good news (after a fashion). If bell style is off, the expected 3-way technique will not work, period.

VOIPoTim
10-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Thanks.
I was able to get into my 286 and Bell style was not selected. I selected, saved and re-booted. When it came back - Bell Style was once again de-selected.

There is an issue with some of the 286's where no changes are saved even if you change them.
I think I own one.
Looks like I'll be catching the "502" train home shortly.....lol;)
And thanks.

In terms of chages, anything changed in the UI will be overwritten by our provisioning. We have to make those changes on our end. Just send in a ticket if you have any changes and as long as they aren't ones that would cause issues, we'll make them on our end for your ATA.

dswartz
10-15-2008, 01:27 PM
Tim, if I may: if this does work for anyone who tries this, can you make this the default voipo config? Reasoning being: *anyone* who comes to voipo from PSTN-land will absolutely expect 3-way to work in the bell style.

scott2020
10-15-2008, 01:44 PM
I did a quick search and found several people with this problem since 2006 or longer. It doesn't seem possible they can put "call waiting" down on their feature list in this condition. Sure, it lets you pick up the 2nd call, but it is almost useless if you can't go back to the first or toggle.

For "mainstream" people coming from the POTS world, this will be expected. I hope the new ATA resolves this.

I have the same question as mentioned already. Will I get a new ATA for this reason? Thanks again.

VOIPoTim
10-15-2008, 01:55 PM
Well first we need to work through troubleshooting for anyone having issues to determine if it can be fixed by a firmware change.

In tests today, call waiting is working fine on our test 286 units. It is a known issue on some units that they had a switching issue, but it's firmware specific. If you're seeing it, open a ticket ideally with the firmware version if possible (just access the IP in a browser and use password 123 to find it) and it should be able to be resolved by upgrading. The only thing that is not going to change with the 286 units is that they play a soft ring vs beeps for call waiting.

For 3 Way Calling, you do need to dial *23 before the number when dialing the 2nd party. As long as you do this, it should be fine. Again, if you have issues with this, open a ticket and we'll check on the firmware, etc.

So the bottom line is if you're having issues, open a ticket and we'll go from there. If there's a legit reason for a swap that we can't solve otherwise, we'll do it. We have to try to resolve it via firmware first though.

Still way too many people e-mailing wanting a new device for no real reason....

dswartz
10-15-2008, 02:17 PM
My last word on this: if you really are wanting to have mainstream, Joe Sixpack people (not techies), make 3-way calling work like it does with Ma Bell.

VOIPoTim
10-15-2008, 02:24 PM
My last word on this: if you really are wanting to have mainstream, Joe Sixpack people (not techies), make 3-way calling work like it does with Ma Bell.

Yes the *23 method is only for the 286 devices. It works with just flashing on the 502s. With the 286's it works well with the *23 method, but we're working on changing that.

scott2020
10-15-2008, 02:25 PM
I have no problem with a firmware update as a resolution. It would save me the pain of disconnecting everything, shipping it back, and so on. However, I tend to agree that it has to work like Ma Bell for the mainstream to accept it. I know you already know this, so I hope the new ATA's are more like POTS in this regard. I put in a ticket and am glad to help if I can.
Scott

usa2k
10-15-2008, 04:09 PM
... With the 286's it works well with the *23 method, but we're working on changing that. To make is not work well? :D

NY Tel Guy
10-15-2008, 06:47 PM
Well first we need to work through troubleshooting for anyone having issues to determine if it can be fixed by a firmware change.

Still way too many people e-mailing wanting a new device for no real reason....
Ticket submitted as requested. I hope it can be fixed just because it is easier for me and cheaper for Voipo and with all of the costs you have been absorbing for us (in exchange for our testing) we should all make an effort to make the units work.

Oh and for what it is worth, the 286 does not match the color of my cat. Is that a good enough reason?......
Just kidding.

chpalmer
10-16-2008, 09:24 AM
Have you seen this thread?
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r212...er-doesnt-work (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21264024-Other-Baffled-Grandstream-HT502-behind-router-doesnt-work)

Normally ATA router combo's come default a little further away from a standard home type routers subnet just because of this type of situation. I.E. 192.168.15.1 for most Linksys and Dlink.

That was actually me replying just couldnt get my (wrong) password to work there.

It will probably be the biggest support question you guys get using these routers. And since it only has one port, people will be forced to use their existing routers.

At my office we have 4 Vonage numbers all using RTP300's on the backside of our Actiontec p.o.s. modem. (insert chicken salad metephor here.) Ive set them up static on the wan port and enabled remote admin on all of them just so I can get in and look if needed. All the RTP's still have their original lan subnets in tact because it doesnt matter as long as they are different than the network they reside on.

Can the lan subnet be provisioned into one of these?

VOIPoTim
10-16-2008, 08:57 PM
Yeah all the LAN settings can be changed.


Normally ATA router.

combo's come default a little further away from a standard home type routers subnet just because of this type of situation. I.E. 192.168.15.1 for most Linksys and Dlink.

That was actually me replying just couldnt get my (wrong) password to work there.

It will probably be the biggest support question you guys get using these routers. And since it only has one port, people will be forced to use their existing routers.

At my office we have 4 Vonage numbers all using RTP300's on the backside of our Actiontec p.o.s. modem. (insert chicken salad metephor here.) Ive set them up static on the wan port and enabled remote admin on all of them just so I can get in and look if needed. All the RTP's still have their original lan subnets in tact because it doesnt matter as long as they are different than the network they reside on.

Can the lan subnet be provisioned into one of these?

chpalmer
10-16-2008, 10:50 PM
Yeah all the LAN settings can be changed.

Cool- that will make it an easy fix when it comes up. :cool:

:)

usa2k
10-17-2008, 03:14 AM
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21264024-Other-Baffled-Grandstream-HT502-behind-router-doesnt-work

One person seemingly had issues ... with another provider.

scott2020
10-17-2008, 06:52 AM
If I plan on putting the 502 behind an existing router/firewall, can I just connect the WAN side of the 502 to the existing firewall? That would put the 502 WAN port on my existing LAN and obtain an IP address on the WAN side from my LAN DHCP server. Then, just leave the 502's LAN side disconnected? I don't plan to use the 502 as my primary gateway/router. If you then turn on the WAN HTTP access (which in this case would actually be my LAN) then you can get to it to administer or whatever. I would think the 502's WAN side would get the IP, gateway, DNS, etc information and know how to get out to the Internet and things would be OK.
Scott

dswartz
10-17-2008, 07:41 AM
I would hope so. Even if I used the voipo ATA, I really don't like the idea of an ATA being the router too. In my experience, the router part of these boxes ends up being, well, not very good. It seems like HW does one thing well, not everything, and for me the priority would be for the ATA to be a good ATA...

p.s. does anyone have feedback on 3-way calling working via the flash hook if they opened a ticket requesting that change?

scott2020
10-17-2008, 09:48 AM
I have the 286 now but apparently there was no software/firmware fix for my particular unit.

I have a Linksys 54g router running Tomato and am quite happy with it. The QOS is top notch, it is very secure, and has tons of other great features. I would like to keep that over using the GS unit for that.

When I get it I'll let you know what i come up with!

NY Tel Guy
10-17-2008, 01:57 PM
I would hope so. Even if I used the voipo ATA, I really don't like the idea of an ATA being the router too. In my experience, the router part of these boxes ends up being, well, not very good. It seems like HW does one thing well, not everything, and for me the priority would be for the ATA to be a good ATA...

p.s. does anyone have feedback on 3-way calling working via the flash hook if they opened a ticket requesting that change?I opened a ticket and my particular model of 286 is not currently fixable (there are a few of these floating around) so I may have to get a 502.
By not fixable - I mean "not worth fixing" if it is just a smattering of adapters.
PM me if you want more details.

dswartz
10-17-2008, 03:09 PM
By 'not fixable', I assume it only does the *23 3-way calling. Bummer...

NY Tel Guy
10-17-2008, 03:36 PM
By 'not fixable', I assume it only does the *23 3-way calling. Bummer...I sent you a PM.

usa2k
10-19-2008, 03:29 PM
So you must be getting enough sign-ups that you don't need to actually beta the 502 devices? Note the comment about Viatalk having NAT issues per this DSLR comment:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21292925-

And then there was the issue I noted below also from DSLR, but a different provider ...

VOIPoTim
10-19-2008, 03:56 PM
So you must be getting enough sign-ups that you don't need to actually beta the 502 devices? Note the comment about Viatalk having NAT issues per this DSLR comment:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r21292925-

And then there was the issue I noted below also from DSLR, but a different provider ...


Yeah we're not seeing issues with it so far. VT had the NAT issues with the PAP2 (which we didn't with 286) so it's likely just their system.

Right now the ratio of new customer signs to BETA is at least 5-1. We're already ahead of the numbers from when we launched VT.

digger16309
10-20-2008, 06:18 PM
If I plan on putting the 502 behind an existing router/firewall, can I just connect the WAN side of the 502 to the existing firewall? That would put the 502 WAN port on my existing LAN and obtain an IP address on the WAN side from my LAN DHCP server. Then, just leave the 502's LAN side disconnected? I don't plan to use the 502 as my primary gateway/router. If you then turn on the WAN HTTP access (which in this case would actually be my LAN) then you can get to it to administer or whatever. I would think the 502's WAN side would get the IP, gateway, DNS, etc information and know how to get out to the Internet and things would be OK.
Scott

That is exactly how I hooked mine up. I had to do reboots of my components in a certain order, but it all came alive and seems to be working well.

GTOJim
10-20-2008, 07:41 PM
Received a GS-502 this afternoon, so far working great behind my router.

zevin
10-20-2008, 10:11 PM
If asking the users to place the GS-205 between the modem and router would be asking them to possibly make changes for PPPoE. IMO that would be a support nightmare.

burris
10-21-2008, 04:29 AM
If asking the users to place the GS-205 between the modem and router would be asking them to possibly make changes for PPPoE. IMO that would be a support nightmare.

At some point in the setup, if you use PPPoE, you still have to engage it. Why is this more difficult?

At the moment, I have my DSL modem bridged and my router does the PPPoE.

I will shortly try to set up the 502 as a router in addition to the VOIP functions (I bought 2 lines) and my present router only as an access point for my lan.
Since my present setup is working flawlessly, I am hesitant to mess it up.

voxabox
10-21-2008, 05:04 AM
guys,
what's your HT-502 firmware version?
my HT502 shows: Program-- 1.0.1.8 Bootloader-- 1.0.0.9 Core-- 1.0.0.23 Base-- 1.0.0.66
according to GS site, the latest is 1.0.1.15 - release notes (http://www.grandstream.com/DOWNLOAD/FIRMWARE/GXW4004_GXW4008_GXW4024/Release_Note_GXW4004_GXW4008_GXW4024_HT502_1.0.1.1 5.pdf)

burris
10-21-2008, 05:26 AM
guys,
what's your HT-502 firmware version?
my HT502 shows: Program-- 1.0.1.8 Bootloader-- 1.0.0.9 Core-- 1.0.0.23 Base-- 1.0.0.66
according to GS site, the latest is 1.0.1.15 - release notes (http://www.grandstream.com/DOWNLOAD/FIRMWARE/GXW4004_GXW4008_GXW4024/Release_Note_GXW4004_GXW4008_GXW4024_HT502_1.0.1.1 5.pdf)

When I first got the 286, I also noticed the firmware was out of date. At that time, Norm and I tried upgrading it and found a bunch of problems happening.
I would maybe wait for VOIPo to push any acceptable upgrades via the MAC from their servers. If you are provisioned, I believe they can take care of it.

dswartz
10-21-2008, 06:50 AM
Burris, the point is that with DHCP, the ATA requires no special configuration by the VSP, whereas for PPPoE, it may very well need it, which means to have the ATA/router sitting in front of the customer's network will require VOIPO (or whoever) to have to know your PPPoE credentials. Aside from the support hassle, there is also the security aspect - VOIPO is my VSP, not my ISP...

voxabox
10-21-2008, 07:34 AM
When I first got the 286, I also noticed the firmware was out of date. At that time, Norm and I tried upgrading it and found a bunch of problems happening.
I would maybe wait for VOIPo to push any acceptable upgrades via the MAC from their servers. If you are provisioned, I believe they can take care of it.
Already submitted a request - ticket EHX-260881

voxabox
10-21-2008, 08:13 AM
Already submitted a request - ticket EHX-260881
FYI, from VoIPo Support Team:


While we agree that upgrading to the latest firmware always sounds like a good idea, we've had some problems in times past with one problem being fixed while more problems arise. That said, this firmware is not going to be supported until we have the chance to thoroughly test it in our lab. We are working diligently to provide you the best service possible, so we will be testing this new firmware as time permits. When we have tested this firmware and feel comfortable with rolling it out to all of our customers, it will be automatically upgraded.

Regards,
VoIPo Support Team
support@voipo.com
http://support.voipo.com (http://support.voipo.com/)
Suggestion to VoIPo Support Team:
To avoid unnecessary support tickets, perhaps there should be a list of VOIPo approved firmware versions; furthermore, the ATAs should be configured to perform periodic/automatic upgrade; otherwise, customers (I, for instance have the modem, router, ATAs on UPS) will need to be notified of new firmware availability to reboot their ATAs (to get the upgrade)
I'm well aware of SIP NOTIFY reboot/restart method

scott2020
10-21-2008, 08:21 AM
I got the 502 yesterday but I didn't get a chance to connect it yet.

From what I understand, on the 502 LAN side the end user should have access to make changes to PPPOE credentials and such. Is that correct? In that sense it is more like a store bought router that would need to be configured for PPPOE anyway. I don't think VOIPo wants to manage or even know about it's customers PPPOE credentials. There would be a lot of risk in that.

scott

voxabox
10-21-2008, 08:41 AM
I got the 502 yesterday but I didn't get a chance to connect it yet.

From what I understand, on the 502 LAN side the end user should have access to make changes to PPPOE credentials and such. Is that correct? In that sense it is more like a store bought router that would need to be configured for PPPOE anyway. I don't think VOIPo wants to manage or even know about it's customers PPPOE credentials. There would be a lot of risk in that.

scott
the WAN/LAN is user configurable
login with password: 123

dswartz
10-21-2008, 08:55 AM
That's not so bad then, I guess. I still think ATAs have no business being routers, but that's just me I guess :)

zevin
10-21-2008, 08:58 AM
I just see hassles from having to connect it to a pc configure PPPoE, reconnect to modem. Perhaps I am making to much out of this but I would recommend putting the 502 after a router more plug and play that way.

You are going to ask the users to rip apart their network to install the ATA. Feels like trouble to me.

burris
10-21-2008, 10:41 AM
Burris, the point is that with DHCP, the ATA requires no special configuration by the VSP, whereas for PPPoE, it may very well need it, which means to have the ATA/router sitting in front of the customer's network will require VOIPO (or whoever) to have to know your PPPoE credentials. Aside from the support hassle, there is also the security aspect - VOIPO is my VSP, not my ISP...

I'm trying to understand what you wrote.

At the moment, with DSL, I have the DSL modem in a bridged mode..feeding my wireless router that performs the PPPoE that is set up in the router, not with the ISP.

When I hook up the 502, I will set up the router to do PPPoE. The 502 router DHCP can be NAT router(so it can go behind a firewall) or switched mode..I'm not keen on using IVR to set it up, and I think direct access will do the job..

I then hope to go into my existing router that will function as an access point.

What is it that you see differently with the 502?

dswartz
10-21-2008, 11:06 AM
With PPPoE, the client (your router) has to communicate with (and authenticate with) the ISP's server. Once that works, you have an IP address and can do stuff. If you put an ATA in front of router, then the ATA needs to do the PPPoE authentication with the ISP, since your original router is sitting behind it and can't do PPPoE. Not to mention having to deal with possible double-NAT issues from apps on my internal LAN.

zevin
10-21-2008, 01:03 PM
With PPPoE, the client (your router) has to communicate with (and authenticate with) the ISP's server. Once that works, you have an IP address and can do stuff. If you put an ATA in front of router, then the ATA needs to do the PPPoE authentication with the ISP, since your original router is sitting behind it and can't do PPPoE. Not to mention having to deal with possible double-NAT issues from apps on my internal LAN.

You see what I am talking about... I can see "DSL Joe" under his desk unplugging things, using the wrong AC adapter, and trying to remember PPPoE login details like password. Who remembers the DSL password, I don't.

http://fc40.deviantart.com/fs12/i/2006/285/3/b/Die_Computer_DIE_by_RomenusWolf.gif

For the average "Joe" something that just plugs in and goes is best. Now if you say the 502 can do that, well I see problems with "Joe" knowing which port on the 502 he should use to plug into the router: wan or lan. Perhaps VOIPo should include an instruction sheet with the adapter or cover the other port with a sticker.


At some point in the setup, if you use PPPoE, you still have to engage it. Why is this more difficult?


Yes you and I know how to go in and set up PPPoE on the 502. However "Joe" is going to get lost real fast. I was not talking about it being difficult for us. You have to consider on occasions the cable or DSL provider installs the modem, connection and even sets up the computers for the user. Granted custom installs is not as common, but still exists. That user has no idea what was done.

Now the user who's modem doesn't require another device to do authentication should have no problem placing the 502 between the modem and router.

Food for thought.

quattrohead
10-21-2008, 05:05 PM
I agree, the ATA should be a guest device after the router. Too much to go wrong otherwise.

burris
10-21-2008, 05:21 PM
I agree, the ATA should be a guest device after the router. Too much to go wrong otherwise.

When I switched to DSL from cable a while back, I first set up the DSL modem to handle the PPPoE and fed it into the router. I did not have very good results..quirky everything..drop outs, etc.
I then made mt DSL modem bridged and fed it to my wireless router that took care of the PPPoE. I simply connected from a router port to my ATA and haven't had a connectivity problem since.

I was waiting for Tim to ask me to do some experimenting with the 502, but all is working so well I am leery.
By the way, the 286 did not give me good results...even after trying every kind of hookup...having a firmware upgrade done on line by VOIPo..doing all kinds of tweaking, etc.

I will of course run the 502 through the paces in order to see what happens and maybe discover some tweaks or information that might be of help to Tim and others..

scott2020
10-22-2008, 01:24 PM
I connected the WAN side of the 502 to my internal network, so it is behind the firewall/router. I left the LAN side disconnected. The WAN side got an internal LAN ip with the firewall/router as the default gateway and all of the other IP settings. I plugged it in and it seems to work fine. I know several others have done this but I wanted to report it seems to be fine. I don't want to use the 502 as a router/firewall either, but some may. I think it will work great either way, but for the average Joe it might be a little more complex. Lots of variables to consider.

It is nice to be able to toggle between callers with call waiting though! I haven't tried 3-way calling yet though.

scott

dswartz
10-22-2008, 01:28 PM
The only complication (I think) is that managing the 502 through the web interface would require configuring it so that WAN-side access is allowed. Dunno if that's the default or not.

VOIPoTim
10-22-2008, 01:57 PM
The only complication (I think) is that managing the 502 through the web interface would require configuring it so that WAN-side access is allowed. Dunno if that's the default or not.

WAN access to it is disabled by default, but it can be enabled if needed with a ticket.

scott2020
10-22-2008, 02:25 PM
On mine it was already enabled, but I'm not sure if that was done before they shipped it to me. Basically I went with my web browser to the IP address the WAN side picked up from my internal DHCP server and it let me right in.

scott

christcorp
10-22-2008, 02:58 PM
Do you all mean WAN or LAN. The wan has to be enabled or it wouldn't accept an IP address from your DSL, Cable, or Router depending on if it's connected before or after the home router. The LAN side; which is it's router functions can be disabled if you are connecting after a home router and not using it to feed/route PC's or other devices.

On a similar side bar: Is the WAN side accessible to the web interface so that we can give the 502 a static IP address from our home network, or do we HAVE TO let it grab an IP address via DHCP? I run only static IP addresses on my home network and need to be able to see the 502 to a 192.168.x.x static IP address on the WAN side. Thx... Mike....

burris
10-22-2008, 03:07 PM
Do you all mean WAN or LAN. The wan has to be enabled or it wouldn't accept an IP address from your DSL, Cable, or Router depending on if it's connected before or after the home router. The LAN side; which is it's router functions can be disabled if you are connecting after a home router and not using it to feed/route PC's or other devices.

On a similar side bar: Is the WAN side accessible to the web interface so that we can give the 502 a static IP address from our home network, or do we HAVE TO let it grab an IP address via DHCP? I run only static IP addresses on my home network and need to be able to see the 502 to a 192.168.x.x static IP address on the WAN side. Thx... Mike....

If you don't yet have it, here is the manual for it.

See if you can figure it out.;)

http://tinyurl.com/6n9nmq

dswartz
10-22-2008, 05:56 PM
Sorry if I was unclear. By 'enabled on the WAN', I meant the management interface.

scott2020
10-22-2008, 08:39 PM
On mine the way I received it from VOIPo, the WAN side had the HTTP management interface enabled. It is configurable to enable or disable from entering in touch tones per the quick setup guide. I guess that is why I could get to the management HTTP via the WAN interface, even though the WAN is connected to my LAN. Confusing huh!

Also, it looks like you can static IP the WAN port IP address. It has DHCP, PPPOE, or Static. You would just need to put in a static IP from your LAN on the WAN configuration of the 502 and it should work. I didn't need to make any other changes.

scott

christcorp
10-22-2008, 09:56 PM
If you don't yet have it, here is the manual for it.

See if you can figure it out.;)

http://tinyurl.com/6n9nmq

Link doesn't work dude. But that's OK. It's probably similar to all other voip ata with built in routers. I plug it in, it grabs and IP address. I look at my regular router. It tells me the IP address it GAVE the voip adapter. I go to that IP address. It allows me into the configuration. I set up a static IP address on it. We probably don't have access to certain advanced features. Sound pretty typical to 99% of voip adapters in the world.

The only reason I asked was because the way some of the questions were being asked, it sounded like EVERYTHING was set up with DHCP and obtaining IP addresses automatically; that it was 100% plug and Pray and couldn't be changed. Sounds like a normal typical setup. later... mike....

VOIPoTim
10-22-2008, 10:04 PM
Link doesn't work dude. But that's OK. It's probably similar to all other voip ata with built in routers. I plug it in, it grabs and IP address. I look at my regular router. It tells me the IP address it GAVE the voip adapter. I go to that IP address. It allows me into the configuration. I set up a static IP address on it. We probably don't have access to certain advanced features. Sound pretty typical to 99% of voip adapters in the world.

The only reason I asked was because the way some of the questions were being asked, it sounded like EVERYTHING was set up with DHCP and obtaining IP addresses automatically; that it was 100% plug and Pray and couldn't be changed. Sounds like a normal typical setup. later... mike....

You're actually able to login to the ATA to manage all the network settings yourself (static IPs, PPoE, etc). We don't provision that stuff.

By default it's all set to DHCP and a default 192.168.2.1 for it's lan port when used as a router.

Also can do port forwarding, dmz, etc...basic stuff, but it's there.

When you login though you can change that stuff.

Brian
10-23-2008, 03:07 AM
What's the default password for this model?

VOIPoTim
10-23-2008, 03:09 AM
What's the default password for this model?

Should be 123.

burris
10-23-2008, 04:08 AM
Should be 123.

Hi, Tim....

123 does get me into the 502 static and basic screens, but when going to any other tabs, it keeps asking for a new password and nothing I have works.

Thanks....

burris

voxabox
10-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Hi, Tim....

123 does get me into the 502 static and basic screens, but when going to any other tabs, it keeps asking for a new password and nothing I have works.

Thanks....

burris
"123" is the "user" password to the HT-502
"user" login allows LAN administrations, "administrator" login, other ATA/SIP administrations (which is under controlled/provisioned by the ITSP - i.e., VOIPo)

burris
10-23-2008, 01:44 PM
"123" is the "user" password to the HT-502
"user" login allows LAN administrations, "administrator" login, other ATA/SIP administrations (which is under controlled/provisioned by the ITSP - i.e., VOIPo)

Strangely enough, the first time a few days ago that I tried it, I did have access. Then it only did as I described above.

My need is to set up both my lines in the ATA..

Brian
10-23-2008, 03:34 PM
Strangely enough, the first time a few days ago that I tried it, I did have access. Then it only did as I described above.

My need is to set up both my lines in the ATA..

I believe Tim said the 502's will be able to support 2 VOIPo lines, but not be provisioned for any other services. VOIPo can provision your 2nd line from their service, if you have one.

NY Tel Guy
10-23-2008, 03:38 PM
What's the default password for this model?

The password is: 123 for the first 2 tabs on the left
The 3 tabs to the right use password admin1

hope this helps.

burris
10-23-2008, 03:41 PM
The password is: 123 for the first 2 tabs on the left
The 3 tabs to the right use password admin1

hope this helps.

Been there...done that, but I will try again before my next glass of wine..

Thanks....

voxabox
10-23-2008, 03:44 PM
Strangely enough, the first time a few days ago that I tried it, I did have access. Then it only did as I described above.

My need is to set up both my lines in the ATA..
Is your HT-502 provided via VOIPo?
if it is, there is a good chance that you got in before it was fully provisioned by VOIPo provisioning server (IIRC, upon rebooting, the unit pulls the configuration/provision from the server)
Anyways, if your HT-502 is supplied via VOIPo, contact support. They will take care of the provisioning for you

burris
10-23-2008, 03:53 PM
Is your HT-502 provided via VOIPo?
if it is, there is a good chance that you got in before it was fully provisioned by VOIPo provisioning server (IIRC, upon rebooting, the unit pulls the configuration/provision from the server)
Anyways, if your HT-502 is supplied via VOIPo, contact support. They will take care of the provisioning for you

I did get it from them and they only pre-programmed up my new line on one of the ports. I did contact them and am waiting for a reply..
Tim wanted me to try it for both my lines as a test and I will do so as soon as I can open the other door.

Thanks..

NY Tel Guy
10-23-2008, 04:06 PM
Been there...done that, but I will try again before my next glass of wine..

Thanks....Ok in that case, the first password is: Chardonnay
and the second one is merlot.:p

burris
10-23-2008, 04:55 PM
Ok in that case, the first password is: Chardonnay
and the second one is merlot.:p

By golly....it worked..thanks.;)

usa2k
10-23-2008, 05:00 PM
By golly....it worked..thanks.;)
The device must be an AAATA :)

scott2020
10-23-2008, 07:01 PM
The device must be an AAATA :)

Maybe you guys just need AA

;)

scott

usa2k
10-23-2008, 07:41 PM
Maybe you guys just need AA

;)

scott
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27071685/

chpalmer
10-23-2008, 07:46 PM
Next up Forum reply system that wont let you post when you have had a few... :p

I post as Im having a Mountain Dew with a Azul Tequila shot... :rolleyes:

usa2k
10-23-2008, 07:50 PM
I've not had a drop of alcohol since 1994.
(I may have had my share before that!)

scott2020
10-24-2008, 10:25 PM
LOL!

Back on topic sort of, I was happy to hear my call waiting tone sounded like the "regular Ma Bell" sort of call waiting on the 502 and not the ringing sound. Toggling works good too between callers.

Scott

christcorp
10-27-2008, 05:06 PM
Not sure if this was covered or not. This thread is now 9 pages. Sorry if it is and I didn't read all of them.

Just got the new 502 adapter today. So far, pretty good. It resolved certain issues (Not VoipO's problems, just the way I have my house wired up). However, there are now a couple of other issues that only happened since installing the 502.

1) My outgoing caller ID no longer shows my name properly. Instead of my number and my name, it shows my number and then my number AGAIN in place of where the NAME should be. I've opened a ticket online for that one.

2) On incoming calls, I would get 5 rings even if the other part hung up after 1. If you answer it, you'd get a fast busy. However, maybe the adapter needs to "Get Use to it's new home". After doing this about 5 straight times, it now stops ringing if the calling parting hangs up. I purposely called and waiting for voicemail, left myself a message, and then hung up. After checking and deleting the voicemail, I can now call the home phone (502) and it will stop ringing if I hang up on the call. Just thought I'd mention this in case anyone else had something similar.

3) I also noticed that after installing the 502, that any of my call routing; e.g. 411, 511, etc... that I programmed into my vpanel was hit or miss. Sometimes it would go through and sometimes it would give me the recording of my call could not go through. But just like the incoming ringing, it seems to have "Fixed itself". I'm sure that the adapter was just a little shy, moving to a new home. Instead of every other call not making it, it now is good about 8 out of 10 times. If I press the # after dialing 411, 511, etc... then it works perfectly each time. Again, no big issue for me. Not worth opening up a ticket. Just wanted to mention it in case someone else tries a 501 and gets something similar. later... mike....

Brian
10-31-2008, 10:36 AM
Tim, if someone wants a 2nd VOIPo line on their GrandStream today, will you support that?

VOIPoTim
10-31-2008, 10:44 AM
Tim, if someone wants a 2nd VOIPo line on their GrandStream today, will you support that?

The provisioning system was designed for associating a single line with each each device since it was designed for the 286's, so we need to make some changes to it for 2 lines on 1 device.

For the time being, we can give you the info and help you configure the 2nd line port manually.